timestamps between computer and router -- email failed

[Micky]

A discussion with someone prompted me to look in my router log today,
(perhaps for the first time in 8 years ) and I tried to email the log
to myself. This gave rise to 3 questions.


A) The time that the log showed for sending the email was 4 minutes
later than the time on the computer clock (which I verified with a
satellite clock). That is, that time had not arrived yet.

An hour later I did something and the log time was 11 minutes later
than reality. And several hours later, the lot time was, I think, 16
minutes later. Is there some way I can use this feature to live
longer? Or twice? If not, what does it mean?


B) I tried to email the log to myself. The field SMTP Server / IP
Address had to be filled in, so I used cmd / ping to get my IP address
and Sent it, but never got it. I added the smtp server,
smtp.verizon.net, but there wasn't enough space in the box to include
that and the IP!!! I was one space short so I omitted the space
between the two values, sent it, and of course I never got it.

In all these tries I had my valid, full ***@verizon.net address in
the other box, called Email Address.

What am I doing wrong? It's the wrong IP address, isn't it?

I have a gmail account and the word gmail is shorter than the word
verizon, so that would fit but I have even less idea what IP goes with
the gmail smtp server, and surely that's not the remedy anyhow.


C) Later I sent an email from my laptop, wirelessly, and the log entry
says "SMTP: sending mail fail". Fail, even though it was sent
successfully.

It's a D-Link AirPlus G, 11 years old. Could that be the cause of
any of these things.

Thanks.

[Micky]

Post by Micky
It's a D-Link AirPlus G, 11 years old. Could that be the cause of
any of these things.

Between 8 and 11 years old. I don't remember if I bought it used or
new. The firmware is almost 11 years old.

[Paul]

Post by Micky

Post by Micky
It's a D-Link AirPlus G, 11 years old. Could that be the cause of
any of these things.

Between 8 and 11 years old. I don't remember if I bought it used or
new. The firmware is almost 11 years old.

I have this problem too. The router quartz crystal clock
drifts like a bastard.

If NTP is enabled in the router, and if the NTP does
first order corrections by "dribbling" out the corrections,
the time accuracy can be made to look better than it actually
is. Say the NTP consults an Internet source once a week.
On Windows, this might correct the clock just the one time
in that week. With a dribbling correction, a tiny correction
by a fixed amount might be applied every fifteen minutes. So
if the drift off-frequency is a manifest constant, the thing
can look like it is keeping perfect time. It's when the
order of drift is higher than first order, that such
"guessing" methods don't work.

Paul

[Micky]

[Default] On Fri, 25 Dec 2015 02:34:30 -0500, in

Post by Paul

Post by Micky

Post by Micky
It's a D-Link AirPlus G, 11 years old. Could that be the cause of
any of these things.

Between 8 and 11 years old. I don't remember if I bought it used or
new. The firmware is almost 11 years old.

I have this problem too. The router quartz crystal clock
drifts like a bastard.

I didn't know the router had a clock, but it has a button under Tools
called Time for which I have checked.
Automatic (Automatic time update with pre-defined NTP servers or
enter customized NTP)
Manual is the alternative.

I don't have anything in the customized NTP field and I have the
interval for Automatic as 24 hours, the default, so that lets it get
wronger and wronger for 24 hours until it gets corrected.

If the log were important, I could set the interval at one hour. (it
goes up to 72.) But I'll let it stay at 24. I'm glad to know how it
can be wrong, when other times are a lot closer.

It's a shame I can't use this to peer into the future.

Post by Paul
If NTP is enabled in the router, and if the NTP does
first order corrections by "dribbling" out the corrections,
the time accuracy can be made to look better than it actually
is. Say the NTP consults an Internet source once a week.
On Windows, this might correct the clock just the one time
in that week. With a dribbling correction, a tiny correction
by a fixed amount might be applied every fifteen minutes. So
if the drift off-frequency is a manifest constant, the thing
can look like it is keeping perfect time. It's when the
order of drift is higher than first order, that such
"guessing" methods don't work.
Paul

[VanguardLH]

Post by Micky
A discussion with someone prompted me to look in my router log today,
(perhaps for the first time in 8 years ) and I tried to email the log
to myself. This gave rise to 3 questions.
A) The time that the log showed for sending the email was 4 minutes
later than the time on the computer clock (which I verified with a
satellite clock). That is, that time had not arrived yet.
An hour later I did something and the log time was 11 minutes later
than reality. And several hours later, the lot time was, I think, 16
minutes later. Is there some way I can use this feature to live
longer? Or twice? If not, what does it mean?

If by "log" you mean you are looking at the router's log then it looks
like your router's time is wrong.

If you are talking about the Date field that your e-mail client adds as
data to your message (and is the time you started composing the message,
not when you sent it) versus the timestamp(s) in the Received header(s)
then those will rarely match. E-mail clients insert the Date header as
you compose the message, so it gets added the moment you open the
new-mail compose window. It could sit in your Drafts folder for weeks
before you send it which means the Date header will be weeks older than
the timestamps in the Received headers (which the mail servers insert as
they transfer your message).

While you can use the NTP (network time protocol) service in Windows or
run a 3rd party atomic clock to synchronize your computer's time with a
time server, you can't do that in the router. Your computer is running
a general-purpose OS. Your router is running a special-purpose OS where
you cannot add processes to run there.

Some routers let you configure or enable an NTP option so it can stay in
sync with an NTP server. Some you have to manually specify the time.
Yours is so old or is a consumer-grade device that you probably have
neither option so you have to manually set the time.

http://support.dlink.com/emulators/dir655/121/Time.html

That is just one example of the config screen where you would have to
set the time. While you can configure the timezone, there is no setting
to enable/disable NTP or configure to which NTP server the router will
connect. That router doesn't have an NTP client running on its embedded
OS to sync its time.

Post by Micky
B) I tried to email the log to myself. The field SMTP Server / IP
Address had to be filled in, so I used cmd / ping to get my IP address
and Sent it, but never got it.

Do actually have your own SMTP server listening for inbound connects
(and those connects can get past a firewall)?

Post by Micky
I added the smtp server,
smtp.verizon.net, but there wasn't enough space in the box to include
that and the IP!!!

You don't understand DNS? You either specify a hostname and have a DNS
server return to your client the IP address for the target host or you
specify the IP address of the target host. You don't do both.

Post by Micky
I was one space short so I omitted the space
between the two values, sent it, and of course I never got it.

Which means you specified an invalid hostname and an invalid IP address
of which you specify only ONE of those.

Post by Micky
the other box, called Email Address.

Still need to specify a valid SMTP server.

Post by Micky
What am I doing wrong? It's the wrong IP address, isn't it?

Nope. It's you specifying both hostname and IP address. Humans like
names. Computers demand numbers. DNS translates between them.

Post by Micky
I have a gmail account and the word gmail is shorter than the word
verizon, so that would fit but I have even less idea what IP goes with
the gmail smtp server, and surely that's not the remedy anyhow.

Decide which to use: the hostname for the SMTP server or the IP address
of the SMTP server, not both.

Post by Micky
C) Later I sent an email from my laptop, wirelessly, and the log entry
says "SMTP: sending mail fail". Fail, even though it was sent
successfully.

The log entry for WHICH client you used for sending?

Post by Micky
It's a D-Link AirPlus G, 11 years old.

Airplus G is a model name, not a model number. You will have to go to
D-Link's site to search their support for the actual model number
printed on the label on the router.

http://support.dlink.com/ProductInfo.aspx?m=DI-713P

That's for a model name "AirPlus" with model number DI-713P. Unless I
missed it through a quick scan of its manual and also search on "time",
that router has no means of changing its internal clock.

Some routers have an NTP option to keep their clocks in sync. One user
in a forum noted in a 6-year old post the following settings:

Automatic Time Configuration
Enable NTP Server : Yes
NTP Server Used : ntp1.dlink.com

Without your actual model *number*, no one can go online to D-Link's
site to read the manual for you. Of course, you could read the manual.
If it doesn't mention automatic time, NTP, or clock settings then there
aren't any in that router. You could replace the firmware in the router
with someone else's, like dd-wrt, that may give you time settings (I've
never done that) but you will still need the actual model *number* of
your router. "d-link airplus g" won't find anything at:

http://www.dd-wrt.com/site/support/router-database

Replacing the firmware code is like reprogramming a brain: only perform
on hardware you can afford to lose. The patient doesn't always survive
the brain reprogramming.

Post by Micky
Could that be the cause of any of these things.

Looks like the cause is you trying to specify both hostname and IP
address of the same target host.

The clock of the router is only for timestamping its logs, if logging is
enabled. It is not used when your computer makes connections to other
hosts. The timestamp (or time specified within the data) of the packet
is what gets used. The router just passes on the packets. The router's
clock is irrelevant to your network use.