Discussion:
OT: Backup software, free... Again :-(
(too old to reply)
Ken Springer
2015-12-11 18:32:23 UTC
Permalink
Before I burn through a bunch of CDs...

Anyone know of a free backup software, that on the emergency boot disk,
there's an eject button?

The computer I'm working with now has a slot drive burner (like iMacs)
and no pin hole for ejecting the disk.

Without the eject button, no way to eject the boot disk so you can
recover your system from a set of DVD disks.

There may be a keyboard shortcut, but that's of no value to someone that
doesn't know the keyboard shortcut.

EaseUS and Aomei do not have the button.
--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 42.0
Thunderbird 38.0.1
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"
Fokke Nauta
2015-12-11 18:57:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Springer
Before I burn through a bunch of CDs...
Anyone know of a free backup software, that on the emergency boot disk,
there's an eject button?
The computer I'm working with now has a slot drive burner (like iMacs)
and no pin hole for ejecting the disk.
Without the eject button, no way to eject the boot disk so you can
recover your system from a set of DVD disks.
There may be a keyboard shortcut, but that's of no value to someone that
doesn't know the keyboard shortcut.
EaseUS and Aomei do not have the button.
Paragon has, but it's not free :-(
Nevertheless, I like it.

Fokke
Kenny Cargill
2015-12-11 21:07:39 UTC
Permalink
Right click on the drive then Eject.

Kenny

"Ken Springer" wrote in message news:n4f4q7$5pe$***@news.albasani.net...

Before I burn through a bunch of CDs...

Anyone know of a free backup software, that on the emergency boot disk,
there's an eject button?

The computer I'm working with now has a slot drive burner (like iMacs)
and no pin hole for ejecting the disk.

Without the eject button, no way to eject the boot disk so you can
recover your system from a set of DVD disks.

There may be a keyboard shortcut, but that's of no value to someone that
doesn't know the keyboard shortcut.

EaseUS and Aomei do not have the button.
--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 42.0
Thunderbird 38.0.1
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ***@netfront.net ---
Ken Springer
2015-12-11 21:18:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kenny Cargill
Right click on the drive then Eject.
Kenny
Before I burn through a bunch of CDs...
Anyone know of a free backup software, that on the emergency boot disk,
there's an eject button?
The computer I'm working with now has a slot drive burner (like iMacs)
and no pin hole for ejecting the disk.
Without the eject button, no way to eject the boot disk so you can
recover your system from a set of DVD disks.
There may be a keyboard shortcut, but that's of no value to someone that
doesn't know the keyboard shortcut.
EaseUS and Aomei do not have the button.
Neither one allows that option.
--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 42.0
Thunderbird 38.0.1
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"
Kenny Cargill
2015-12-11 21:35:57 UTC
Permalink
Not sure what you're trying to do, are you creating a backup which spans a
number of DVD's? When restoring them does the software you're using not
prompt for the next disc? Why not create backup on a separate HDD partition
or an external HDD? Right click and Eject is from Windows, not the program.
I've used similar to this before to remove a stuck disc.
http://www.corewerkz.com/2008/06/13/video-how-to-remove-stuck-cd-from-imac-slot-loading-optical-drive/

Kenny
Post by Kenny Cargill
Right click on the drive then Eject.
Kenny
Before I burn through a bunch of CDs...
Anyone know of a free backup software, that on the emergency boot disk,
there's an eject button?
The computer I'm working with now has a slot drive burner (like iMacs)
and no pin hole for ejecting the disk.
Without the eject button, no way to eject the boot disk so you can
recover your system from a set of DVD disks.
There may be a keyboard shortcut, but that's of no value to someone that
doesn't know the keyboard shortcut.
EaseUS and Aomei do not have the button.
Neither one allows that option.
--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 42.0
Thunderbird 38.0.1
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"


--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ***@netfront.net ---
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2015-12-11 21:43:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kenny Cargill
Not sure what you're trying to do, are you creating a backup which
spans a number of DVD's? When restoring them does the software you're
using not prompt for the next disc? Why not create backup on a
separate HDD partition or an external HDD? Right click and Eject is
from Windows, not the program.
[]
He's after a backup system which involves (makes) an emergency boot
disc. The idea being you boot from that. If it then asks you to load
your first backup disc, you've got to remove the boot disc from the
drive in order to load the backup disc. If your drive doesn't have an
eject button, and the emergency boot disc is based on something that
doesn't know about right-click and eject (or maybe doesn't even show
anything you could right-click _on_), you're stuck.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

The first banjo solo I played was actually just a series of mistakes. In fact
it was all the mistakes I knew at the time. - Tim Dowling, RT2015/6/20-26
Ken Springer
2015-12-12 01:36:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kenny Cargill
Not sure what you're trying to do, are you creating a backup which spans a
number of DVD's? When restoring them does the software you're using not
prompt for the next disc? Why not create backup on a separate HDD partition
or an external HDD? Right click and Eject is from Windows, not the program.
I've used similar to this before to remove a stuck disc.
http://www.corewerkz.com/2008/06/13/video-how-to-remove-stuck-cd-from-imac-slot-loading-optical-drive/
Kenny
J.P. Gilliver has nailed the situation perfectly.
Post by Kenny Cargill
Post by Kenny Cargill
Right click on the drive then Eject.
Kenny
Before I burn through a bunch of CDs...
Anyone know of a free backup software, that on the emergency boot disk,
there's an eject button?
The computer I'm working with now has a slot drive burner (like iMacs)
and no pin hole for ejecting the disk.
Without the eject button, no way to eject the boot disk so you can
recover your system from a set of DVD disks.
There may be a keyboard shortcut, but that's of no value to someone that
doesn't know the keyboard shortcut.
EaseUS and Aomei do not have the button.
Neither one allows that option.
--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 42.0
Thunderbird 38.0.1
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"
Paul
2015-12-11 21:54:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Springer
Post by Kenny Cargill
Right click on the drive then Eject.
Kenny
Before I burn through a bunch of CDs...
Anyone know of a free backup software, that on the emergency boot disk,
there's an eject button?
The computer I'm working with now has a slot drive burner (like iMacs)
and no pin hole for ejecting the disk.
Without the eject button, no way to eject the boot disk so you can
recover your system from a set of DVD disks.
There may be a keyboard shortcut, but that's of no value to someone that
doesn't know the keyboard shortcut.
EaseUS and Aomei do not have the button.
Neither one allows that option.
I think there are plenty of options.

Including switching to a USB key for the Rescue CD.
Check the Rescue options, to see if a USB key is
mentioned as another option. (Look in the Macrium
Rescue menu for that option.)

This article mentions WinPE can work from an internal RAMDisk.
Implying the environment can be copied to RAM, making
the media expendable after boot completes.

https://technet.microsoft.com/en-ca/library/cc766092(v=ws.10).aspx

I'm not suggesting you use that article - I'm saying
the WinPE environment has a lot of options, if the
developer making the backup software chooses to use them.
DIY media that way, is for geeks. I don't propose to spend
half the day, "converting" some CD you've got, to a USB
format yourself.

In fact, some CD images (ISO9660) now, are universal
on their own. They have a hybrid boot module. If the
media is sector-by-sector copied onto a USB flash drive,
it "just boots". That doesn't work all the time (obviously),
but it has become yet another option you run into occasionally.

Paul
Ken Springer
2015-12-12 01:50:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul
Post by Ken Springer
Post by Kenny Cargill
Right click on the drive then Eject.
Kenny
Before I burn through a bunch of CDs...
Anyone know of a free backup software, that on the emergency boot disk,
there's an eject button?
The computer I'm working with now has a slot drive burner (like iMacs)
and no pin hole for ejecting the disk.
Without the eject button, no way to eject the boot disk so you can
recover your system from a set of DVD disks.
There may be a keyboard shortcut, but that's of no value to someone that
doesn't know the keyboard shortcut.
EaseUS and Aomei do not have the button.
Neither one allows that option.
I think there are plenty of options.
Including switching to a USB key for the Rescue CD.
Check the Rescue options, to see if a USB key is
mentioned as another option. (Look in the Macrium
Rescue menu for that option.)
This article mentions WinPE can work from an internal RAMDisk.
Implying the environment can be copied to RAM, making
the media expendable after boot completes.
https://technet.microsoft.com/en-ca/library/cc766092(v=ws.10).aspx
I'm not suggesting you use that article - I'm saying
the WinPE environment has a lot of options, if the
developer making the backup software chooses to use them.
DIY media that way, is for geeks. I don't propose to spend
half the day, "converting" some CD you've got, to a USB
format yourself.
In fact, some CD images (ISO9660) now, are universal
on their own. They have a hybrid boot module. If the
media is sector-by-sector copied onto a USB flash drive,
it "just boots". That doesn't work all the time (obviously),
but it has become yet another option you run into occasionally.
This is another of my "computer give away" projects, so the KISS
principle and lowest financial outlay are main goals.

Disks are harder to lose than a USB key, too.

FWIW, the programs I've tried so far offer both a WinPE and a Linux
option for the boot disks. The Linux disks offer fewer options once
loaded, but they boot faster. I prefer the Linux version so there's
less possibility of the recipient screwing up. <G>
--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 42.0
Thunderbird 38.0.1
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"
Paul
2015-12-11 21:42:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Springer
Before I burn through a bunch of CDs...
Anyone know of a free backup software, that on the emergency boot disk,
there's an eject button?
The computer I'm working with now has a slot drive burner (like iMacs)
and no pin hole for ejecting the disk.
Without the eject button, no way to eject the boot disk so you can
recover your system from a set of DVD disks.
There may be a keyboard shortcut, but that's of no value to someone that
doesn't know the keyboard shortcut.
EaseUS and Aomei do not have the button.
Have you tried your external USB Optical drive ?

If you're working in a repair shop you should keep
one handy, for working on machines with no
internal optical drive. Just pretend it doesn't
have a drive in it...

I booted my Macrium 5.3 (i.e. not the latest) Rescue CD
using a USB external optical drive, and it booted fine.
At shutdown, it did not offer to eject the media. But
since the drive has a button (and a hole :-) ), there
is no problem getting the media back out of the external.

That gives you the freedom to work with more than
one backup/restore software.

As for the missing hole, it might be covered by a
product sticker or an external bezel. The plastic of the
device exterior might be covering the hole. It might
require some screwdriver work on your part, to uncover
the degree of deception used... The drive manufacturer
probably did provide a hole, but it's covered by
something.

Paul
Ken Springer
2015-12-12 01:54:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul
Post by Ken Springer
Before I burn through a bunch of CDs...
Anyone know of a free backup software, that on the emergency boot disk,
there's an eject button?
The computer I'm working with now has a slot drive burner (like iMacs)
and no pin hole for ejecting the disk.
Without the eject button, no way to eject the boot disk so you can
recover your system from a set of DVD disks.
There may be a keyboard shortcut, but that's of no value to someone that
doesn't know the keyboard shortcut.
EaseUS and Aomei do not have the button.
Have you tried your external USB Optical drive ?
As I noted in my reply to your other post, this is a give away machine,
so there will be no external drive.
Post by Paul
If you're working in a repair shop you should keep
one handy, for working on machines with no
internal optical drive. Just pretend it doesn't
have a drive in it...
I'm in my bedroom. ROFL!!
Post by Paul
I booted my Macrium 5.3 (i.e. not the latest) Rescue CD
using a USB external optical drive, and it booted fine.
At shutdown, it did not offer to eject the media. But
since the drive has a button (and a hole :-) ), there
is no problem getting the media back out of the external.
That gives you the freedom to work with more than
one backup/restore software.
As for the missing hole, it might be covered by a
product sticker or an external bezel. The plastic of the
device exterior might be covering the hole. It might
require some screwdriver work on your part, to uncover
the degree of deception used... The drive manufacturer
probably did provide a hole, but it's covered by
something.
The slot is part of the bottom half of the case, just like it is in an iMac.

I have a horse's ass work around for the software issue, I would just
like to find something a little more "professional" rather than "shade
tree".
--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 42.0
Thunderbird 38.0.1
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"
Paul
2015-12-12 03:48:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Springer
The slot is part of the bottom half of the case, just like it is in an iMac.
I have a horse's ass work around for the software issue, I would just
like to find something a little more "professional" rather than "shade
tree".
I did find an option in Macrium Reflect rescue CD
to "eject", but as you'd expect, it says "there was
an error" when the eject is attempted. Which means
it holds the media busy while the WinPE is running.
I was hoping perhaps it loaded the media into a RAMDisk.

One other option that came to mind, is given the machine
has a "loser" optical drive design, there may be an option
in the BIOS to eject the thing. Think of the scenario,
where on an ordinary machine, a user presses the optical
drive button while at BIOS level. Would the BIOS implement
a function to support eject ? So a user could load
boot media ?

What I do here quite often, is use the popup boot menu
(F8 on this machine), and once the BIOS is stopped and
waiting in the boot menu, I open the drawer on the optical
drive and insert the media I want to use. The idea would
be, that a machine crippled by not having an eject
function, would need one at BIOS level. The popup boot
won't have it, but the Setup screen might. As otherwise,
you'd be at the mercy of a hotkey to do it. And what
are the odds of that happening ? That the right keyboard
exists with a button for it. If I were to connect
my "multimedia" keyboard I keep as a spare here, the
extra keys on that only work if the driver CD was used
to install some sort of driver for it. Which means there
simply wouldn't be good enough support for it.

Paul
Ken Springer
2015-12-12 15:47:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul
Post by Ken Springer
The slot is part of the bottom half of the case, just like it is in an iMac.
I have a horse's ass work around for the software issue, I would just
like to find something a little more "professional" rather than "shade
tree".
I did find an option in Macrium Reflect rescue CD
to "eject", but as you'd expect, it says "there was
an error" when the eject is attempted. Which means
it holds the media busy while the WinPE is running.
I was hoping perhaps it loaded the media into a RAMDisk.
I'll at least check out Macrium again, maybe an older version since this
is a Vista computer.
Post by Paul
One other option that came to mind, is given the machine
has a "loser" optical drive design, there may be an option
in the BIOS to eject the thing. Think of the scenario,
where on an ordinary machine, a user presses the optical
drive button while at BIOS level. Would the BIOS implement
a function to support eject ? So a user could load
boot media ?
That's an interesting thought. But what value does this have for the
average user who has no idea of what a BIOS is?
Post by Paul
What I do here quite often, is use the popup boot menu
(F8 on this machine), and once the BIOS is stopped and
waiting in the boot menu, I open the drawer on the optical
drive and insert the media I want to use. The idea would
be, that a machine crippled by not having an eject
function, would need one at BIOS level. The popup boot
won't have it, but the Setup screen might. As otherwise,
you'd be at the mercy of a hotkey to do it. And what
are the odds of that happening ? That the right keyboard
exists with a button for it. If I were to connect
my "multimedia" keyboard I keep as a spare here, the
extra keys on that only work if the driver CD was used
to install some sort of driver for it. Which means there
simply wouldn't be good enough support for it.
Paul
--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 42.0
Thunderbird 38.0.1
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"
Paul
2015-12-12 17:17:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Springer
Would the BIOS implement a function to support eject ?
So a user could load boot media ?
That's an interesting thought. But what value does this have for the
average user who has no idea of what a BIOS is?
The Basic Input Output Subsystem, is a part of the
user interface for a user. In it, you can specify the
boot order. That's one important thing in there
you can change.

I don't really expect to find an Eject feature
in there, but if a company is stupid enough
to put a button-less optical drive
in the machine, they better have
a Plan-B in mind.

I checked my Apple designs, which tended to the
button-less design. But *everything* I've checked so far,
had the pinhole for the paper clip. Even the floppy
drive on my Quadra has the pinhole for the paper clip.
As the floppy is a motor-eject kind, not a button-kind.

On the G4, if you get the flapper door open
on the front, the optical drive tray has the
pinhole for the paper clip, just below the tray.

The Mac keyboard had a button on the keyboard for the
optical drive, but if you plug that keyboard into a PC,
the key doesn't map to anything useful. So it's not like
there is a presumed standard for this stuff.

Depending on the bezel design, you also have
the option of going through your junk pile, and
swapping in another optical drive. When you're making
PCs, there may be a need to adhere to standards so
you can swap mid-stream in a production run, to a
second source of optical drive.

Paul
Ken Springer
2015-12-12 19:11:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul
Post by Ken Springer
Would the BIOS implement a function to support eject ?
So a user could load boot media ?
That's an interesting thought. But what value does this have for the
average user who has no idea of what a BIOS is?
The Basic Input Output Subsystem, is a part of the
user interface for a user. In it, you can specify the
boot order. That's one important thing in there
you can change.
I always check this on the donated machines, and make the optical drive
#1 if it isn't.
Post by Paul
I don't really expect to find an Eject feature
in there, but if a company is stupid enough
to put a button-less optical drive
in the machine, they better have
a Plan-B in mind.
There may be a Plan-B in mind, but I'm sure it includes the original
boot media, recovery partition, or something. In this case, no hard
drive or any media came with the laptop.
Post by Paul
I checked my Apple designs, which tended to the
button-less design. But *everything* I've checked so far,
had the pinhole for the paper clip. Even the floppy
drive on my Quadra has the pinhole for the paper clip.
As the floppy is a motor-eject kind, not a button-kind.
You'd better drop by your nearest Apple Store and check out the current
hardware designs. This is a 9,1 iMac, and it has no pinholes, no
floppies. In fact, I don't think there was ever an iMac with a floppy disk.
Post by Paul
On the G4, if you get the flapper door open
on the front, the optical drive tray has the
pinhole for the paper clip, just below the tray.
There are HP designs, and others, that are this way.
Post by Paul
The Mac keyboard had a button on the keyboard for the
optical drive, but if you plug that keyboard into a PC,
the key doesn't map to anything useful. So it's not like
there is a presumed standard for this stuff.
There's a lot of features on a Mac keyboard that do not work when
attached to a PC. Likewise, a lot of PC keyboard will not work on a Mac
unless there's a driver for it.
Post by Paul
Depending on the bezel design, you also have
the option of going through your junk pile, and
swapping in another optical drive. When you're making
PCs, there may be a need to adhere to standards so
you can swap mid-stream in a production run, to a
second source of optical drive.
I've built a whopping 2 PCs! LOL The first was simply for the
challenge, to see if I could pull it off. The 2nd was to get one
configured hardware wise the way I wanted. No manufacturer makes one
the way I want, AFAIK.

Had an epiphany last night. The last time I was looking for backup
software, I looked at Macrium 6.?. Way, way too complicated and
confusing for the knowledgeable user. But I thought, maybe an older
version might be different. Version 5 is the oldest on their website,
then I remembered FileHippo.

Checked out their site, and downloaded the last version of 4 they have.
Burned the emergency rescue disk and booted from it. SUCCESS!!!!!!
As soon as it finished booting, it ejected the boot disk!

Burning disks right now to see if it actually works. I need to create a
backup to an external drive first though.

UI for this version of Macrium is far to complicated for the type of
user that will have the computer, but I'm going to go with it if it works.

Aomei backupper is such a POS. I used it to create a backup to an
external drive. Booted the rescue disk, it didn't see the backup drive.
I'll never recommend this program to anyone, not even the Devil.
--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 42.0
Thunderbird 38.0.1
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"
Ken Blake, MVP
2015-12-12 22:11:07 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 12 Dec 2015 12:11:00 -0700, Ken Springer
Post by Ken Springer
Post by Paul
The Basic Input Output Subsystem, is a part of the
user interface for a user. In it, you can specify the
boot order. That's one important thing in there
you can change.
I always check this on the donated machines, and make the optical drive
#1 if it isn't.
I am probably in the minority, but I always think that's a bad idea.
There's always a possibility that there's a CD or DVD with a boot
virus that's been left in the drive.

So I keep the hard drive as number 1, and change it to the optical
drive only when I need to and only temporarily.
Ken Springer
2015-12-12 23:14:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake, MVP
On Sat, 12 Dec 2015 12:11:00 -0700, Ken Springer
Post by Ken Springer
Post by Paul
The Basic Input Output Subsystem, is a part of the
user interface for a user. In it, you can specify the
boot order. That's one important thing in there
you can change.
I always check this on the donated machines, and make the optical drive
#1 if it isn't.
I am probably in the minority, but I always think that's a bad idea.
There's always a possibility that there's a CD or DVD with a boot
virus that's been left in the drive.
So I keep the hard drive as number 1, and change it to the optical
drive only when I need to and only temporarily.
I understand your point.

But, if that were to happen, won't be from me. :-) Thing is, we and
most of the people here are knowledgeable enough to know how to change
that boot order. I'd be willing to bet 4 out of 5 of the recipients who
get one of my rebuilds do not.

These folks get a computer I say is fully functional. What will they
say or think when they stick in an autoboot disk and then it doesn't?
Doesn't do much for my credibility. :-)
--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 42.0
Thunderbird 38.0.1
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"
Ken Blake, MVP
2015-12-12 23:52:21 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 12 Dec 2015 16:14:09 -0700, Ken Springer
Post by Ken Springer
Post by Ken Blake, MVP
On Sat, 12 Dec 2015 12:11:00 -0700, Ken Springer
Post by Ken Springer
Post by Paul
The Basic Input Output Subsystem, is a part of the
user interface for a user. In it, you can specify the
boot order. That's one important thing in there
you can change.
I always check this on the donated machines, and make the optical drive
#1 if it isn't.
I am probably in the minority, but I always think that's a bad idea.
There's always a possibility that there's a CD or DVD with a boot
virus that's been left in the drive.
So I keep the hard drive as number 1, and change it to the optical
drive only when I need to and only temporarily.
I understand your point.
But, if that were to happen, won't be from me. :-) Thing is, we and
most of the people here are knowledgeable enough to know how to change
that boot order. I'd be willing to bet 4 out of 5 of the recipients who
get one of my rebuilds do not.
These folks get a computer I say is fully functional. What will they
say or think when they stick in an autoboot disk and then it doesn't?
Doesn't do much for my credibility. :-)
I understand your point, too, and I understood it from your earlier
message. Still, I'd rather someone called me for help than have them
exposed to a vulnerability.
Ken Springer
2015-12-13 00:47:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake, MVP
On Sat, 12 Dec 2015 16:14:09 -0700, Ken Springer
Post by Ken Springer
Post by Ken Blake, MVP
On Sat, 12 Dec 2015 12:11:00 -0700, Ken Springer
Post by Ken Springer
Post by Paul
The Basic Input Output Subsystem, is a part of the
user interface for a user. In it, you can specify the
boot order. That's one important thing in there
you can change.
I always check this on the donated machines, and make the optical drive
#1 if it isn't.
I am probably in the minority, but I always think that's a bad idea.
There's always a possibility that there's a CD or DVD with a boot
virus that's been left in the drive.
So I keep the hard drive as number 1, and change it to the optical
drive only when I need to and only temporarily.
I understand your point.
But, if that were to happen, won't be from me. :-) Thing is, we and
most of the people here are knowledgeable enough to know how to change
that boot order. I'd be willing to bet 4 out of 5 of the recipients who
get one of my rebuilds do not.
These folks get a computer I say is fully functional. What will they
say or think when they stick in an autoboot disk and then it doesn't?
Doesn't do much for my credibility. :-)
I understand your point, too, and I understood it from your earlier
message. Still, I'd rather someone called me for help than have them
exposed to a vulnerability.
That would represent way to many people. Especially since I do all
these systems for free. :-)
--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 42.0
Thunderbird 38.0.1
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2015-12-13 00:37:41 UTC
Permalink
[]
Post by Ken Springer
Post by Ken Blake, MVP
I am probably in the minority, but I always think that's a bad idea.
There's always a possibility that there's a CD or DVD with a boot
virus that's been left in the drive.
So I keep the hard drive as number 1, and change it to the optical
drive only when I need to and only temporarily.
I think I do too.
Post by Ken Springer
I understand your point.
But, if that were to happen, won't be from me. :-) Thing is, we and
most of the people here are knowledgeable enough to know how to change
that boot order. I'd be willing to bet 4 out of 5 of the recipients
who get one of my rebuilds do not.
Indeed.
Post by Ken Springer
These folks get a computer I say is fully functional. What will they
say or think when they stick in an autoboot disk and then it doesn't?
Doesn't do much for my credibility. :-)
Though is that sort of user likely to insert an autoBOOT disc? An
autoRUN one, yes, that does something "automatically" when you insert it
while Windows is running, but I wouldn't think they'd be (intentionally,
anyway!) inserting one that actually contains boot information (i. e. an
OS of some sort).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Just seen a Dyslexic Yorkshireman wearing a cat flap!
Ken Springer
2015-12-13 00:49:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
Post by Ken Springer
Post by Ken Blake, MVP
I am probably in the minority, but I always think that's a bad idea.
There's always a possibility that there's a CD or DVD with a boot
virus that's been left in the drive.
So I keep the hard drive as number 1, and change it to the optical
drive only when I need to and only temporarily.
I think I do too.
Post by Ken Springer
I understand your point.
But, if that were to happen, won't be from me. :-) Thing is, we and
most of the people here are knowledgeable enough to know how to change
that boot order. I'd be willing to bet 4 out of 5 of the recipients
who get one of my rebuilds do not.
Indeed.
Post by Ken Springer
These folks get a computer I say is fully functional. What will they
say or think when they stick in an autoboot disk and then it doesn't?
Doesn't do much for my credibility. :-)
Though is that sort of user likely to insert an autoBOOT disc? An
autoRUN one, yes, that does something "automatically" when you insert it
while Windows is running, but I wouldn't think they'd be (intentionally,
anyway!) inserting one that actually contains boot information (i. e. an
OS of some sort).
It's something I have to assume will eventually happen.
--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 42.0
Thunderbird 38.0.1
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2015-12-13 00:33:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul
Post by Ken Springer
Would the BIOS implement a function to support eject ?
So a user could load boot media ?
That's an interesting thought. But what value does this have for
the average user who has no idea of what a BIOS is?
The Basic Input Output Subsystem, is a part of the
user interface for a user. In it, you can specify the
boot order. That's one important thing in there
you can change.
[]
For us, yes; for the sort of "average user" Ken is speaking of, they
certainly won't know what it is.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Just seen a Dyslexic Yorkshireman wearing a cat flap!
Paul
2015-12-13 06:31:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Springer
Before I burn through a bunch of CDs...
Anyone know of a free backup software, that on the emergency boot disk,
there's an eject button?
The computer I'm working with now has a slot drive burner (like iMacs)
and no pin hole for ejecting the disk.
Without the eject button, no way to eject the boot disk so you can
recover your system from a set of DVD disks.
There may be a keyboard shortcut, but that's of no value to someone that
doesn't know the keyboard shortcut.
EaseUS and Aomei do not have the button.
OK, I got this working.

It turns out, that my Macrium 5.3 rescue CD
could not be ejected, because it wasn't RAM mounted.

I made a fresh CD (in VirtualBox as a test environment)
using Macrium version 6, and then I carried out a bcdenum check.

You extract the BCD file from the rescue.iso you make,
and you can "read out" the settings like this. Assuming
the BCD file is stored in your current working directory.
Using the /store option, allows working with a BCD which
is not the current boot OS BCD file. You can then probe
"foreign" BCD files.

bcdenum /store BCD /enum

And the output for the BCD on the Macrium 6 CD looks like this.

Windows Boot Manager
--------------------
identifier {bootmgr}
description Windows Boot Manager
locale en-US
inherit {globalsettings}
default {default}
displayorder {default}
toolsdisplayorder {memdiag}
timeout 30

Windows Boot Loader
-------------------
identifier {default}
device ramdisk=[boot]\sources\boot.wim,{7619dcc8-fafe-11d9-b411-000476eba25f}
path \windows\system32\boot\winload.exe
description Windows Setup
locale en-US
inherit {bootloadersettings}
osdevice ramdisk=[boot]\sources\boot.wim,{7619dcc8-fafe-11d9-b411-000476eba25f}
systemroot \windows
custom:250000c2 1
detecthal Yes
winpe Yes
ems No

Since it contained the word "ramdisk", I figured the
CD gets copied into RAM. And it could be
ejected.

So I rebooted the VirtualBox machine, using the rescue.iso
as the boot source.

In Macrium, I pretended to "Browse" for a restore MRIMG file.
Instead, using the Explorer file navigation window, I located
the optical drive D: , right clicked it, and selected Eject.
It still didn't like it, but the virtual CD was ejected
in VirtualBox.

So it's worth a test with Macrium version 6.

*******

When you make a rescue CD on version 6, it installs
the drivers needed by that specific machine. Which
means the CD may not be "perfect for every machine"
and is effectively custom-made. This will complicate
the test procedure for your button-less optical
drive. Since your hard drive is still functional,
even if this test fails, you can simply refuse
to "Press any key" during the boot cycle, and
fall through to hard drive booting. That works
now, while you have a controlled test environment
with a working hard drive, but if your user had
no hard drive contents, then you'd be stuck.
So testing it now, you should be able to wiggle
your way out, if the burned CD doesn't work.

I used my Macrium install files I keep here for
version 6 experiments. The same set of files I
used to set up a virtual test environment for
someone else. I happened to choose WinPE5.zip during
download. But you can choose some other option
of the four versions available if you like.
This is a picture of the "change PE version" dialog.

Loading Image...

The reason those options exist at all, is the rescue.iso
can be copied onto the C: drive of the system, as
an alternate boot OS. So you can boot from the hard
drive, and have a work environment independent of
your regular C: . So to match the OS the environment
is going into, you can select a WinPE version for
the machine. Now, such a boot option is nice, but
isn't of much usage during an emergency. That's when
you need the CD. And the version of WinPE used
for the CD boot, well, the version there helps
with hardware. For example, you would expect a
Win8.1 system to have built-in USB3 support. So
you would select a WinPE version number,
consistent with getting enough hardware support.

In any case, I have discovered by accident, that
Macrium 6 is RAMboot, and Macrium 5.3 was not. And
maybe that will be enough to give you a means to
eject the CD, using the Explorer file dialog that
is exposed when "browsing for a restore image".
In my VM, there wasn't a lot of visual feedback
that the CD eject had worked, until I tried
a second time and got an error :-) And then,
going to the VBox storage options, I could
see my CD was missing and it had worked.
And the environment was still running, without
the CD.

Some Microsoft page claims you need around 512MB
of RAM, for RAMboot WinPE. Just to give you some
idea of the hardware requirements. If the machine
in question only had a 128MB stick, you'd be out
of luck on this flavor of Macrium booting.

Paul
Ken Springer
2015-12-13 14:53:44 UTC
Permalink
On 12/12/15 11:31 PM, Paul wrote:

<snip>
Post by Paul
OK, I got this working.
It turns out, that my Macrium 5.3 rescue CD
could not be ejected, because it wasn't RAM mounted.
<snip>

I think I got 6.1 to do what I want, but I don't remember how I did it.
LOL

I have to write a truly basic computer security presentation for
tomorrow, so the search for backup software is on hold for a day or two.
--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 42.0
Thunderbird 38.0.1
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"
Ken Springer
2015-12-14 16:52:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Springer
<snip>
Post by Paul
OK, I got this working.
It turns out, that my Macrium 5.3 rescue CD
could not be ejected, because it wasn't RAM mounted.
<snip>
I think I got 6.1 to do what I want, but I don't remember how I did it.
LOL
I have to write a truly basic computer security presentation for
tomorrow, so the search for backup software is on hold for a day or two.
Paul,

6.1 will do the job, but intuitive it is not.

It's rather a Rube Goldberg way you have to do things to get the disks
to eject, but it can be done.
--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 42.0
Thunderbird 38.0.1
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"
Mike Tomlinson
2015-12-13 10:00:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Springer
Anyone know of a free backup software, that on the emergency boot disk,
there's an eject button?
Most of those emergency boot CDs run on Linux. See if you can get to a
command prompt by pressing ctrl-alt-F1, F2, etc. These select Linux
'terminals' (aka ttys). F1 is tty1, F2 is tty2, etc.

If you can obtain a prompt (either #, % or $), type 'eject /dev/sr0' and
the disc should eject. You can then return to the original program with
another ctrl-alt-Fx combination. Usually, the GUI is on tty7 (ctrl-alt-
F7) but this varies. Just work through the F-keys until you find the
right one.
--
(\_/) Tyson Fury: #homophobe #bigot #throwback #missinglink
(='.'=) #neanderthal #misogynist #redneck #dickhead
(")_(")
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