OT: Simple to use backup/imaging program

[Ken Springer]

Rebuilding a laptop with Vista Home Premium on it, for donation to a
client of a local social services program.

The laptop has Vista Home Premium installed, that was original when it
was introduced in 2011. Those nice people at Microsoft, in their zeal
to be customer friendly, did not include Complete PC Backup and Recovery
in this version of Vista.

I want to donate the computer with a set of DVDs containing a system
image, so I'm looking for third party software that is free and easy for
a newbie/rookie/unknowing.

Years ago, I used EaseUS Free, and found very simple to use. That's
where I started. But I don't find it to be quite as easy and
straightforward any more. And I've discovered a possible bug. On the
first attempt at doing this, it appears the recovery program on the
bootable DVD does not recognize eternal USB drives. So if your system
image is there, you can't get it. I need to make some more tests on this.

I also looked at Macrium Reflect for the first time. Far too
sophisticated for my uses.

Anyone have suggestions for something a less knowledgeable user that
wouldn't cause too much anxiety? And hopefully has easy nontechnically
worded help files?

[Paul]

Post by Ken Springer
Rebuilding a laptop with Vista Home Premium on it, for donation to a
client of a local social services program.
The laptop has Vista Home Premium installed, that was original when it
was introduced in 2011. Those nice people at Microsoft, in their zeal
to be customer friendly, did not include Complete PC Backup and Recovery
in this version of Vista.
I want to donate the computer with a set of DVDs containing a system
image, so I'm looking for third party software that is free and easy for
a newbie/rookie/unknowing.
Years ago, I used EaseUS Free, and found very simple to use. That's
where I started. But I don't find it to be quite as easy and
straightforward any more. And I've discovered a possible bug. On the
first attempt at doing this, it appears the recovery program on the
bootable DVD does not recognize eternal USB drives. So if your system
image is there, you can't get it. I need to make some more tests on this.
I also looked at Macrium Reflect for the first time. Far too
sophisticated for my uses.
Anyone have suggestions for something a less knowledgeable user that
wouldn't cause too much anxiety? And hopefully has easy nontechnically
worded help files?

I think you want Macrium Reflect version 5, rather than version 6.

Version 6 added differential and incremental backups, complicating things.
Version 5 is a bit more straightforward.

If you kept an archive of it, then you'd be all set. This isn't the
latest, just something I kept a copy of last year. It's good enough.

(For some reason, the oldversion.com collection stops before it gets
to versions like this, so if you went there, you might find
an older but still usable version. You still need the WinPE
stuff, unless you want to make recovery media using the built-in
Linux ISO. Again, still workable. I prefer a WinPE based ISO,
because the program on it seems to be fuller featured. The
Linux based ISO still works, and has the restore capability
needed for your situation. The WinPE one is fully functional
and can be used to do any of the functions, even backups,
and that's why I usually make that one instead.)

v5.3.7149_reflect_setup_free_x64.exe 51,693,008 bytes
SHA1sum = a35fe7938ed2691d17f15cad972dd4bbc28dad59

pe5x64.zip 189,861,954 bytes
SHA1sum = 9ea7c78b9cd4f15fa79328f2504ce3a3d894adc7

When you install version 5, it will pop up dialogs to update
to version 6, which you can just click cancel.

I've taken a quick look at version 6 (might be in a VM),
and didn't really like the interface changes all that much.
So all the OS installs here are still running some version
of 5.3 stream.

If you ignore the watermarks in this screenshot, you can see
once a disk is identified, you just click either the "clone" or the
"Image this disk" button underneath the partition map. And there's
no differential or incremental to set up, as that feature
doesn't exist.

Loading Image...

I checked Vista Home Premium here (I installed from an ISO
I have), and you're right, in that there is no "wbadmin"
so no chance of doing WindowsImageBackup from there. The
"wbadmin" program is the alternative to the GUI for
that backup stuff. And can be used in Windows 8, when
the GUI happens to be missing :-)

Paul

[Ken Springer]

Post by Paul

Post by Ken Springer
Rebuilding a laptop with Vista Home Premium on it, for donation to a
client of a local social services program.
The laptop has Vista Home Premium installed, that was original when it
was introduced in 2011. Those nice people at Microsoft, in their zeal
to be customer friendly, did not include Complete PC Backup and Recovery
in this version of Vista.
I want to donate the computer with a set of DVDs containing a system
image, so I'm looking for third party software that is free and easy for
a newbie/rookie/unknowing.
Years ago, I used EaseUS Free, and found very simple to use. That's
where I started. But I don't find it to be quite as easy and
straightforward any more. And I've discovered a possible bug. On the
first attempt at doing this, it appears the recovery program on the
bootable DVD does not recognize eternal USB drives. So if your system
image is there, you can't get it. I need to make some more tests on this.
I also looked at Macrium Reflect for the first time. Far too
sophisticated for my uses.
Anyone have suggestions for something a less knowledgeable user that
wouldn't cause too much anxiety? And hopefully has easy nontechnically
worded help files?

I think you want Macrium Reflect version 5, rather than version 6.
Version 6 added differential and incremental backups, complicating things.
Version 5 is a bit more straightforward.
If you kept an archive of it, then you'd be all set. This isn't the
latest, just something I kept a copy of last year. It's good enough.

All in all, I think Macrium is going to be too complicated for the
person this system is going to. He will be the first recipient of any
of the systems I've built that I've ever met. Wheelchair bound, with a
caretaker. So you can imagine his financial status.

Which is why I liked the simpler interface of EaseUS better, but that
was the XP era.

Post by Paul
(For some reason, the oldversion.com collection stops before it gets
to versions like this, so if you went there, you might find
an older but still usable version. You still need the WinPE
stuff, unless you want to make recovery media using the built-in
Linux ISO. Again, still workable. I prefer a WinPE based ISO,
because the program on it seems to be fuller featured. The
Linux based ISO still works, and has the restore capability
needed for your situation. The WinPE one is fully functional
and can be used to do any of the functions, even backups,
and that's why I usually make that one instead.)

I'm loathe to go this route. You never know when the next update, even
if it is Vista, will break the older version of whatever program I
install, be it backup software or something else.

Post by Paul
v5.3.7149_reflect_setup_free_x64.exe 51,693,008 bytes
SHA1sum = a35fe7938ed2691d17f15cad972dd4bbc28dad59
pe5x64.zip 189,861,954 bytes
SHA1sum = 9ea7c78b9cd4f15fa79328f2504ce3a3d894adc7
When you install version 5, it will pop up dialogs to update
to version 6, which you can just click cancel.
I've taken a quick look at version 6 (might be in a VM),
and didn't really like the interface changes all that much.
So all the OS installs here are still running some version
of 5.3 stream.
If you ignore the watermarks in this screenshot, you can see
once a disk is identified, you just click either the "clone" or the
"Image this disk" button underneath the partition map. And there's
no differential or incremental to set up, as that feature
doesn't exist.
http://bramj.com/images/screenshots/macrium-reflect-free-edition-5-3-build-7170-screenshot-1.png

There doesn't seem to be a problem using the EaseUS program for this,
it's when I boot from the recovery CD. That's when the external drive
with the image does not show up.

Post by Paul
I checked Vista Home Premium here (I installed from an ISO
I have), and you're right, in that there is no "wbadmin"
so no chance of doing WindowsImageBackup from there. The
"wbadmin" program is the alternative to the GUI for
that backup stuff. And can be used in Windows 8, when
the GUI happens to be missing :-)

The more I've thought about the idea of sticking in the recovery
program(s) into home, the more I think it wouldn't be appropriate. Not
that it's possibly illegal, but what if the HD fails at some point
requiring a fresh install if Vista Home? Rather than using the recovery
disks I would have created which would include this "hack", a true
reinstall from the ground up is decided upon. Then someone is going to
look at it and wonder where the Complete blah blah stuff is. I don't
want to put them in this position.

I try to stick to as pure of a KISS principle as possible, but I made a
couple changes to make system recovery easier in the future. Everything
else I do is simple changes in the UI any user can do if they took the
time to investigate and learn, which they don't. :-(

[Paul]

Post by Ken Springer

Post by Paul

Post by Ken Springer
Rebuilding a laptop with Vista Home Premium on it, for donation to a
client of a local social services program.
The laptop has Vista Home Premium installed, that was original when it
was introduced in 2011. Those nice people at Microsoft, in their zeal
to be customer friendly, did not include Complete PC Backup and Recovery
in this version of Vista.
I want to donate the computer with a set of DVDs containing a system
image, so I'm looking for third party software that is free and easy for
a newbie/rookie/unknowing.
Years ago, I used EaseUS Free, and found very simple to use. That's
where I started. But I don't find it to be quite as easy and
straightforward any more. And I've discovered a possible bug. On the
first attempt at doing this, it appears the recovery program on the
bootable DVD does not recognize eternal USB drives. So if your system
image is there, you can't get it. I need to make some more tests on this.
I also looked at Macrium Reflect for the first time. Far too
sophisticated for my uses.
Anyone have suggestions for something a less knowledgeable user that
wouldn't cause too much anxiety? And hopefully has easy nontechnically
worded help files?

I think you want Macrium Reflect version 5, rather than version 6.
Version 6 added differential and incremental backups, complicating things.
Version 5 is a bit more straightforward.
If you kept an archive of it, then you'd be all set. This isn't the
latest, just something I kept a copy of last year. It's good enough.

All in all, I think Macrium is going to be too complicated for the
person this system is going to. He will be the first recipient of any
of the systems I've built that I've ever met. Wheelchair bound, with a
caretaker. So you can imagine his financial status.
Which is why I liked the simpler interface of EaseUS better, but that
was the XP era.

Post by Paul
(For some reason, the oldversion.com collection stops before it gets
to versions like this, so if you went there, you might find
an older but still usable version. You still need the WinPE
stuff, unless you want to make recovery media using the built-in
Linux ISO. Again, still workable. I prefer a WinPE based ISO,
because the program on it seems to be fuller featured. The
Linux based ISO still works, and has the restore capability
needed for your situation. The WinPE one is fully functional
and can be used to do any of the functions, even backups,
and that's why I usually make that one instead.)

I'm loathe to go this route. You never know when the next update, even
if it is Vista, will break the older version of whatever program I
install, be it backup software or something else.

Post by Paul
v5.3.7149_reflect_setup_free_x64.exe 51,693,008 bytes
SHA1sum = a35fe7938ed2691d17f15cad972dd4bbc28dad59
pe5x64.zip 189,861,954 bytes
SHA1sum = 9ea7c78b9cd4f15fa79328f2504ce3a3d894adc7
When you install version 5, it will pop up dialogs to update
to version 6, which you can just click cancel.
I've taken a quick look at version 6 (might be in a VM),
and didn't really like the interface changes all that much.
So all the OS installs here are still running some version
of 5.3 stream.
If you ignore the watermarks in this screenshot, you can see
once a disk is identified, you just click either the "clone" or the
"Image this disk" button underneath the partition map. And there's
no differential or incremental to set up, as that feature
doesn't exist.
http://bramj.com/images/screenshots/macrium-reflect-free-edition-5-3-build-7170-screenshot-1.png

There doesn't seem to be a problem using the EaseUS program for this,
it's when I boot from the recovery CD. That's when the external drive
with the image does not show up.

Post by Paul
I checked Vista Home Premium here (I installed from an ISO
I have), and you're right, in that there is no "wbadmin"
so no chance of doing WindowsImageBackup from there. The
"wbadmin" program is the alternative to the GUI for
that backup stuff. And can be used in Windows 8, when
the GUI happens to be missing :-)

The more I've thought about the idea of sticking in the recovery
program(s) into home, the more I think it wouldn't be appropriate. Not
that it's possibly illegal, but what if the HD fails at some point
requiring a fresh install if Vista Home? Rather than using the recovery
disks I would have created which would include this "hack", a true
reinstall from the ground up is decided upon. Then someone is going to
look at it and wonder where the Complete blah blah stuff is. I don't
want to put them in this position.
I try to stick to as pure of a KISS principle as possible, but I made a
couple changes to make system recovery easier in the future. Everything
else I do is simple changes in the UI any user can do if they took the
time to investigate and learn, which they don't. :-(

No, the deal on the V/7/8/10 backup, is when the software is
installed for that trim level, both a GUI and a copy of "wbadmin"
exist. On Windows 8, at some point, the GUI was disabled or disappeared,
but the version 8 of the wbadmin was still there. It wasn't a hack that
involved copying software from some other OS. At least, I never
tried anything like that. I suspect the GUI may be calling
wbadmin to do the actual backup. Just a guess.

*******

On Macrium, there are two boot CDs. If you just have

v5.3.7149_reflect_setup_free_x64.exe

then there is a Linux ISO stored inside that. And the Linux
OS never shows any aspect of itself (no Terminal to play in,
no goofy Linux commands possible). The CD boots, and all
you can access is the Macrium screen. How it differs, is it
doesn't have the complete backup/clone/restore feature set.
You can be assured it does "restore", so your needs, of allowing
a user to boot the 200MB recovery CD and do a bare metal restore,
are met.

When you add this and position it next to the EXE at
install time

pe5x64.zip

that allows a WinPE boot CD to be made. And the Macrium code
provided with that ISO is full featured. You get backup/clone/restore.
It also has the benefit, that the C: is "at rest", so nothing blocks
making a perfect backup copy. This is more of a theoretical
concern than a practical one - I rest easier knowing that
Windows cannot hold a file hostage, while I'm using the
boot CD version.

When you use the Reflectdl downloader provided on CNET, it
allows selections like these to be added to the download.

pe3x64.zip
...
pe5x64.zip

And those line up with the various Windows ADK kits. From
a user perspective, the reason for wanting the pe5x64 one
for a 64 bit installation, is it has USB3 support. So if
you connect a USB3 drive to a USB3 port, you get USB3 speed
during transfers. Without the specific pe5x64, if you just
select a random pe64.zip, you get USB2 support for sure. And
that gives a transfer speed of 30-35MB/sec.

The latest version of Macrium (6), does a better job of
checking for drivers when building the WinPE ISO. So you
might actually have working network shares for doing
backups or restores. I've never had much luck with
network shares for anything like this (other backup
programs have problems with network shares too). All
I can depend on, is internal disks or USB2 connections.
If I'm lucky.

*******

Some OEM laptops have third-party backup, which
not only provides the backup function, it also
busts the Windows Backup buttons :-) The tool I
got on my Acer laptop, was "NTI Backup". I've never
bothered to examine it for simplicity or functionality,
but you might take a look through the computer
Program Files folder, and see what lurks in there.
There is a small chance the OEM machine already
has a substitute for the missing WindowsImageBackup.

Paul

[Ken Springer]

Post by Paul

Post by Ken Springer

Post by Paul

Post by Ken Springer
Rebuilding a laptop with Vista Home Premium on it, for donation to a
client of a local social services program.
The laptop has Vista Home Premium installed, that was original when it
was introduced in 2011. Those nice people at Microsoft, in their zeal
to be customer friendly, did not include Complete PC Backup and Recovery
in this version of Vista.
I want to donate the computer with a set of DVDs containing a system
image, so I'm looking for third party software that is free and easy for
a newbie/rookie/unknowing.
Years ago, I used EaseUS Free, and found very simple to use. That's
where I started. But I don't find it to be quite as easy and
straightforward any more. And I've discovered a possible bug. On the
first attempt at doing this, it appears the recovery program on the
bootable DVD does not recognize eternal USB drives. So if your system
image is there, you can't get it. I need to make some more tests on this.
I also looked at Macrium Reflect for the first time. Far too
sophisticated for my uses.
Anyone have suggestions for something a less knowledgeable user that
wouldn't cause too much anxiety? And hopefully has easy nontechnically
worded help files?

I think you want Macrium Reflect version 5, rather than version 6.
Version 6 added differential and incremental backups, complicating things.
Version 5 is a bit more straightforward.
If you kept an archive of it, then you'd be all set. This isn't the
latest, just something I kept a copy of last year. It's good enough.

All in all, I think Macrium is going to be too complicated for the
person this system is going to. He will be the first recipient of any
of the systems I've built that I've ever met. Wheelchair bound, with a
caretaker. So you can imagine his financial status.
Which is why I liked the simpler interface of EaseUS better, but that
was the XP era.

Post by Paul
(For some reason, the oldversion.com collection stops before it gets
to versions like this, so if you went there, you might find
an older but still usable version. You still need the WinPE
stuff, unless you want to make recovery media using the built-in
Linux ISO. Again, still workable. I prefer a WinPE based ISO,
because the program on it seems to be fuller featured. The
Linux based ISO still works, and has the restore capability
needed for your situation. The WinPE one is fully functional
and can be used to do any of the functions, even backups,
and that's why I usually make that one instead.)

I'm loathe to go this route. You never know when the next update, even
if it is Vista, will break the older version of whatever program I
install, be it backup software or something else.

Post by Paul
v5.3.7149_reflect_setup_free_x64.exe 51,693,008 bytes
SHA1sum = a35fe7938ed2691d17f15cad972dd4bbc28dad59
pe5x64.zip 189,861,954 bytes
SHA1sum = 9ea7c78b9cd4f15fa79328f2504ce3a3d894adc7
When you install version 5, it will pop up dialogs to update
to version 6, which you can just click cancel.
I've taken a quick look at version 6 (might be in a VM),
and didn't really like the interface changes all that much.
So all the OS installs here are still running some version
of 5.3 stream.
If you ignore the watermarks in this screenshot, you can see
once a disk is identified, you just click either the "clone" or the
"Image this disk" button underneath the partition map. And there's
no differential or incremental to set up, as that feature
doesn't exist.
http://bramj.com/images/screenshots/macrium-reflect-free-edition-5-3-build-7170-screenshot-1.png

There doesn't seem to be a problem using the EaseUS program for this,
it's when I boot from the recovery CD. That's when the external drive
with the image does not show up.

Post by Paul
I checked Vista Home Premium here (I installed from an ISO
I have), and you're right, in that there is no "wbadmin"
so no chance of doing WindowsImageBackup from there. The
"wbadmin" program is the alternative to the GUI for
that backup stuff. And can be used in Windows 8, when
the GUI happens to be missing :-)

The more I've thought about the idea of sticking in the recovery
program(s) into home, the more I think it wouldn't be appropriate. Not
that it's possibly illegal, but what if the HD fails at some point
requiring a fresh install if Vista Home? Rather than using the recovery
disks I would have created which would include this "hack", a true
reinstall from the ground up is decided upon. Then someone is going to
look at it and wonder where the Complete blah blah stuff is. I don't
want to put them in this position.
I try to stick to as pure of a KISS principle as possible, but I made a
couple changes to make system recovery easier in the future. Everything
else I do is simple changes in the UI any user can do if they took the
time to investigate and learn, which they don't. :-(

No, the deal on the V/7/8/10 backup, is when the software is
installed for that trim level, both a GUI and a copy of "wbadmin"
exist. On Windows 8, at some point, the GUI was disabled or disappeared,
but the version 8 of the wbadmin was still there. It wasn't a hack that
involved copying software from some other OS. At least, I never
tried anything like that. I suspect the GUI may be calling
wbadmin to do the actual backup. Just a guess.

When I first read "trim level" I went "WTF?", but then I realized what
you meant when I thought about "trim levels" in a new vehicle. And all
was good with the world. LOL

In XP, the backup program is a complete standalone program. Copy the
.exe file from one to the other and you were good to go. Did that once
just to see if it worked.

Vista Home obviously has something that replaces wbadmin, but I don't
know what that is. But for my goals, tis only a bit of trivia knowledge
for me.

Post by Paul
*******
On Macrium, there are two boot CDs. If you just have
v5.3.7149_reflect_setup_free_x64.exe
then there is a Linux ISO stored inside that. And the Linux
OS never shows any aspect of itself (no Terminal to play in,
no goofy Linux commands possible). The CD boots, and all
you can access is the Macrium screen. How it differs, is it
doesn't have the complete backup/clone/restore feature set.
You can be assured it does "restore", so your needs, of allowing
a user to boot the 200MB recovery CD and do a bare metal restore,
are met.
When you add this and position it next to the EXE at
install time
pe5x64.zip
that allows a WinPE boot CD to be made. And the Macrium code
provided with that ISO is full featured. You get backup/clone/restore.
It also has the benefit, that the C: is "at rest", so nothing blocks
making a perfect backup copy. This is more of a theoretical
concern than a practical one - I rest easier knowing that
Windows cannot hold a file hostage, while I'm using the
boot CD version.
When you use the Reflectdl downloader provided on CNET, it
allows selections like these to be added to the download.
pe3x64.zip
...
pe5x64.zip
And those line up with the various Windows ADK kits. From
a user perspective, the reason for wanting the pe5x64 one
for a 64 bit installation, is it has USB3 support. So if
you connect a USB3 drive to a USB3 port, you get USB3 speed
during transfers. Without the specific pe5x64, if you just
select a random pe64.zip, you get USB2 support for sure. And
that gives a transfer speed of 30-35MB/sec.
The latest version of Macrium (6), does a better job of
checking for drivers when building the WinPE ISO. So you
might actually have working network shares for doing
backups or restores. I've never had much luck with
network shares for anything like this (other backup
programs have problems with network shares too). All
I can depend on, is internal disks or USB2 connections.
If I'm lucky.

V6 gave me an option of creating a WinPE or Linux recovery disk. I
think there was a note saying the Linux version had fewer options, but
don't ask me to testify to that. LOL I created a WinPE disk.

Post by Paul
*******
Some OEM laptops have third-party backup, which
not only provides the backup function, it also
busts the Windows Backup buttons :-) The tool I
got on my Acer laptop, was "NTI Backup". I've never
bothered to examine it for simplicity or functionality,
but you might take a look through the computer
Program Files folder, and see what lurks in there.
There is a small chance the OEM machine already
has a substitute for the missing WindowsImageBackup.

Unfortunately, the laptop came to me without the internal drive, which
should have had a recovery partition. So I had to go to "other sources"
to get a copy of Vista Home Premium. That .iso was missing some drivers
for the hardware installed but I tracked them down, and AFAIK can tell,
everything should work unless there's a physical issue. For instance, I
have no way of testing the HDMI port, as I don't own anything to plug in
there. And I know the new owner isn't going to have anything. But
there's nothing missing in Device Manager, so I'm comfortable with that.

And the install activated with the number on the product ID sticker,
which is a *must* for me or I don't give it away.

[Char Jackson]

Post by Ken Springer

Post by Paul
(For some reason, the oldversion.com collection stops before it gets
to versions like this, so if you went there, you might find
an older but still usable version. You still need the WinPE
stuff, unless you want to make recovery media using the built-in
Linux ISO. Again, still workable. I prefer a WinPE based ISO,
because the program on it seems to be fuller featured. The
Linux based ISO still works, and has the restore capability
needed for your situation. The WinPE one is fully functional
and can be used to do any of the functions, even backups,
and that's why I usually make that one instead.)

I'm loathe to go this route. You never know when the next update, even
if it is Vista, will break the older version of whatever program I
install, be it backup software or something else.

You don't have to *install* backup software. Lots of people decide to run it
from CD/DVD/USB media when Windows isn't running.

[Ken Springer]

Post by Char Jackson

Post by Ken Springer

Post by Paul
(For some reason, the oldversion.com collection stops before it gets
to versions like this, so if you went there, you might find
an older but still usable version. You still need the WinPE
stuff, unless you want to make recovery media using the built-in
Linux ISO. Again, still workable. I prefer a WinPE based ISO,
because the program on it seems to be fuller featured. The
Linux based ISO still works, and has the restore capability
needed for your situation. The WinPE one is fully functional
and can be used to do any of the functions, even backups,
and that's why I usually make that one instead.)

I'm loathe to go this route. You never know when the next update, even
if it is Vista, will break the older version of whatever program I
install, be it backup software or something else.

You don't have to *install* backup software. Lots of people decide to run it
from CD/DVD/USB media when Windows isn't running.

I know, but with it installed, it's more convenient for making backup.

And probably easier for the almost computer illiterate and newbies. I
suspect the person who will get this laptop fall into the first group,
most do.

[Roger Blake]

Post by Ken Springer
I want to donate the computer with a set of DVDs containing a system
image, so I'm looking for third party software that is free and easy for
a newbie/rookie/unknowing.

There is only so much you can expect of someone who is attempting to
use a computer while remaining aggressively ignorant of computing (knows
nothing and is unwilling or unable to learn).

If the machine in question has a Western Digital or Seagate Drive you
might try the free versions of Acronis offered by those companies. Pretty
easy to use for imaging/cloning disks.

[(PeteCresswell)]

Post by Roger Blake

Post by Ken Springer
I want to donate the computer with a set of DVDs containing a system
image, so I'm looking for third party software that is free and easy for
a newbie/rookie/unknowing.

There is only so much you can expect of someone who is attempting to
use a computer while remaining aggressively ignorant of computing (knows
nothing and is unwilling or unable to learn).

+1

All of my 'Customers' (read extended family members and former work
colleagues that I support for free) have TeamViewer installed on their
machines and, rather than trying to write a book for them every time
there is a problem, I just remote in to the PC, take a look, and do what
needs to be done.

But total system re-images have eluded me so far. I just don't see any
way to manage the situation remotely.

I tried writing extremely-detailed instructions with screen shots and
all for one user; but when push came to shove it all broke down.... all
it takes is one unexpected prompt and the instructions become useless.

Ideally, there should be a way to remote into a PC, initiate a re-image
that does not involve any command line prompts or dialogs once it is
running, let it run, and then connect again once it is done.

Tall order....

[Ken Springer]

Post by (PeteCresswell)

Post by Roger Blake

Post by Ken Springer
I want to donate the computer with a set of DVDs containing a system
image, so I'm looking for third party software that is free and easy for
a newbie/rookie/unknowing.

There is only so much you can expect of someone who is attempting to
use a computer while remaining aggressively ignorant of computing (knows
nothing and is unwilling or unable to learn).

+1
All of my 'Customers' (read extended family members and former work
colleagues that I support for free) have TeamViewer installed on their
machines and, rather than trying to write a book for them every time
there is a problem, I just remote in to the PC, take a look, and do what
needs to be done.

I'm going to install Teamviewer too, starting with this Vista laptop.

Post by (PeteCresswell)
But total system re-images have eluded me so far. I just don't see any
way to manage the situation remotely.

I don't think there's ever going to be a way to do that, at least not in
the near future. I first became aware of Teamviewer when I had an issue
that gave me some free help from MS. I was on the phone with tech
engineers in New Delhi, and even they had me turning the computer off
and on.

Post by (PeteCresswell)
I tried writing extremely-detailed instructions with screen shots and
all for one user; but when push came to shove it all broke down.... all
it takes is one unexpected prompt and the instructions become useless.

I create a doc with a general description of the software I've
installed, basically just what the software is meant to do, and general
instructions on using the recovery discs.

Post by (PeteCresswell)
Ideally, there should be a way to remote into a PC, initiate a re-image
that does not involve any command line prompts or dialogs once it is
running, let it run, and then connect again once it is done.

How would you select which backup to restore from? And if the backup(s)
are on discs, someone has to be there to swap them. <G>

Post by (PeteCresswell)
Tall order....

[(PeteCresswell)]

Post by Ken Springer
I don't think there's ever going to be a way to do that, at least not in
the near future.

I have the same feeling.... and one thing I left out in my little
desired scenario is the very real possibility that the remote PC has
become so hosed that I won't run TeamViewer or maybe not even boot.

Now we're back to something where the user inserts a bootable DVD, DVD
boots into a recovery environment that includes TeamViewer pre-set to a
known TeamViewer ID.... and so-forth.

I do not think that one is impossible.... just way, way beyond my pay
grade. "Slipstreaming" and "BartPE" come to mind but I wouldn't have a
snowball's chance of putting together such a DVD myself.

[Ken Springer]

Post by Roger Blake

Post by Ken Springer
I want to donate the computer with a set of DVDs containing a system
image, so I'm looking for third party software that is free and easy for
a newbie/rookie/unknowing.

There is only so much you can expect of someone who is attempting to
use a computer while remaining aggressively ignorant of computing (knows
nothing and is unwilling or unable to learn).

I know. :-( Just started a new part time job to get me out of the
house at a PC shop. The guy running it and I have already bitched about
this situation.

Post by Roger Blake
If the machine in question has a Western Digital or Seagate Drive you
might try the free versions of Acronis offered by those companies. Pretty
easy to use for imaging/cloning disks.

If I knew what brand of drive the new owner may use at some point in the
future, I'd try the appropriate program.

My hunch is, he will never set anything up. But I want him to have the
option if he does.

[Roger Blake]

Post by Ken Springer
I know. :-( Just started a new part time job to get me out of the
house at a PC shop. The guy running it and I have already bitched about
this situation.

I took a gig like that at a friend's computer shop a few years back.
It was very difficult dealing with the endless parade of the Clueless
who, due mainly to their own sheer ignorance and lack of initiative,
got themselves into trouble, lost pictures, infested up the wazoo with
malware, etc. -- I simply have no sympathy at all for such people
who I sincerly believe would be better of sticking with film cameras
and typewriters.

I remember one woman who was in tears because the hard drive on
her computer died where she had years of family photos. I asked her
incredulously, "You're the administrator of this computer system, didn't
you make any backups?" (Yeah, my bedside manner can be pretty poor.) Got
just a blank stare, like I'd fallen out of a tree or something. (We
actually did get her photos back for her, though it cost her $$$ for us
to send the drive to a professional data recovery service.)

Eventually I really could not take it any more and just concentrated on
my own consulting business, where all I deal with is maintaining servers
and working with small businesses where I have some control over the
computing infrastructure and environment. (I'm ex-DEC, working in the
computer industry about 40 years. Now working pretty much part time,
"semi-retired.")

Post by Ken Springer
If I knew what brand of drive the new owner may use at some point in the
future, I'd try the appropriate program.

A machine like that would not be worth installing another hard drive in if
the current one fails. I'd just check and see what's in there now and give
it a shot if appropriate.

[(PeteCresswell)]

Post by Roger Blake
I took a gig like that at a friend's computer shop a few years back.
It was very difficult dealing with the endless parade of the Clueless
who, due mainly to their own sheer ignorance and lack of initiative,
got themselves into trouble, lost pictures, infested up the wazoo with
malware, etc. -- I simply have no sympathy at all for such people
who I sincerly believe would be better of sticking with film cameras
and typewriters.
I remember one woman who was in tears because the hard drive on
her computer died where she had years of family photos. I asked her
incredulously, "You're the administrator of this computer system, didn't
you make any backups?" (Yeah, my bedside manner can be pretty poor.) Got
just a blank stare, like I'd fallen out of a tree or something. (We
actually did get her photos back for her, though it cost her $$$ for us
to send the drive to a professional data recovery service.)

I can accept those who are just clueless. What gets me cynical are the
ones who, when somebody tries to explain the facts of life (the need for
backups, for instance) to them they aggressively reject it.

When somebody like that comes to me with lost data/system I am tempted
to be a jerk about it and ask "Where is your backup?"...."What
backup?".... "Oh well....We *did* try to tell you....".

[Ken Blake, MVP]

Post by (PeteCresswell)
I can accept those who are just clueless. What gets me cynical are the
ones who, when somebody tries to explain the facts of life (the need for
backups, for instance) to them they aggressively reject it.
When somebody like that comes to me with lost data/system I am tempted
to be a jerk about it and ask "Where is your backup?"...."What
backup?".... "Oh well....We *did* try to tell you....".

Not me. If somebody like that comes to me for help, I just refrain
from telling them anything.I don't put in so many words, but my
response is essentially "If you want to be a jerk, that's fine with
me. But don't bother me about it."

[Ken Springer]

Post by Roger Blake

Post by Ken Springer
I know. :-( Just started a new part time job to get me out of the
house at a PC shop. The guy running it and I have already bitched about
this situation.

I took a gig like that at a friend's computer shop a few years back.
It was very difficult dealing with the endless parade of the Clueless
who, due mainly to their own sheer ignorance and lack of initiative,
got themselves into trouble, lost pictures, infested up the wazoo with
malware, etc. -- I simply have no sympathy at all for such people
who I sincerly believe would be better of sticking with film cameras
and typewriters.

I blame the hardware makers and MS for a lot of this. You used to get
documentation to explain things and get you started. But no more. :-(

Post by Roger Blake
I remember one woman who was in tears because the hard drive on
her computer died where she had years of family photos. I asked her
incredulously, "You're the administrator of this computer system, didn't
you make any backups?" (Yeah, my bedside manner can be pretty poor.) Got
just a blank stare, like I'd fallen out of a tree or something. (We
actually did get her photos back for her, though it cost her $$$ for us
to send the drive to a professional data recovery service.)

I've a friend that was going to get me her XP system so I could do
something similar. She never has. She had a lot of pics of her
deceased daughter on the computer. From a bit of history, I think she
had someone look at the computer and that person did a complete
reinstall. My suspicion is, the tech didn't bother to check for user files.

Post by Roger Blake
Eventually I really could not take it any more and just concentrated on
my own consulting business, where all I deal with is maintaining servers
and working with small businesses where I have some control over the
computing infrastructure and environment. (I'm ex-DEC, working in the
computer industry about 40 years. Now working pretty much part time,
"semi-retired.")

Post by Ken Springer
If I knew what brand of drive the new owner may use at some point in the
future, I'd try the appropriate program.

A machine like that would not be worth installing another hard drive in if
the current one fails. I'd just check and see what's in there now and give
it a shot if appropriate.

This isn't the original drive. It came from a dead DVR. But I was
actually referring to the external drive used for a back up.

[(PeteCresswell)]

Post by Ken Springer
She never has. She had a lot of pics of her
deceased daughter on the computer. From a bit of history, I think she
had someone look at the computer and that person did a complete
reinstall. My suspicion is, the tech didn't bother to check for user files.

That's something that really gets me spun up.

MS keeps releasing new systems, moving the furniture around, pushing
cloud storage, and so-forth.... but nobody seems to care about the
separation of System and Data.

Seems to me like that's Computer Hygiene 101 - right up there with
regular backups and anti virus.

The least they could do is create some sort of standard where PC's come
with the internal drive partitioned into C: ("System") and D: ("Data")
and the system's parms default to saving anything data-ish to D: -
including all the "My...." folders/libraries.

Needless-to-say, the Windows Desktop also needs to default to living on
D:.

End-game, with a plain-vanilla PC used by a total technophobe it should
be possible to re-image the system with no loss of data.

Tell that to The Powers That Be at MS and they'd probably pat you on the
head and tell you to go back to your little world.

[Ken Springer]

Post by (PeteCresswell)

Post by Ken Springer
She never has. She had a lot of pics of her
deceased daughter on the computer. From a bit of history, I think she
had someone look at the computer and that person did a complete
reinstall. My suspicion is, the tech didn't bother to check for user files.

That's something that really gets me spun up.
MS keeps releasing new systems, moving the furniture around, pushing
cloud storage, and so-forth.... but nobody seems to care about the
separation of System and Data.

Exactly. Which is what I do on all the systems I rebuild.

Post by (PeteCresswell)
Seems to me like that's Computer Hygiene 101 - right up there with
regular backups and anti virus.
The least they could do is create some sort of standard where PC's come
with the internal drive partitioned into C: ("System") and D: ("Data")
and the system's parms default to saving anything data-ish to D: -
including all the "My...." folders/libraries.

+1

Post by (PeteCresswell)
Needless-to-say, the Windows Desktop also needs to default to living on
D:.
End-game, with a plain-vanilla PC used by a total technophobe it should
be possible to re-image the system with no loss of data.
Tell that to The Powers That Be at MS and they'd probably pat you on the
head and tell you to go back to your little world.

[Ken Blake, MVP]

On Sat, 3 Oct 2015 13:36:09 -0600, Ken Springer

Post by Ken Springer

Post by Roger Blake
I took a gig like that at a friend's computer shop a few years back.
It was very difficult dealing with the endless parade of the Clueless
who, due mainly to their own sheer ignorance and lack of initiative,
got themselves into trouble, lost pictures, infested up the wazoo with
malware, etc. -- I simply have no sympathy at all for such people
who I sincerly believe would be better of sticking with film cameras
and typewriters.

I blame the hardware makers and MS for a lot of this. You used to get
documentation to explain things and get you started. But no more. :-(

Unquestionably there is much less documentation than there used to be,
and that's sad. But let me make three points:

1. Even back when there was much more documentation, most people read
little or none of it and its absence makes very little difference to
most people.

2. Software documentation mostly dealt with how to use the software,
not with things like data backup, malware protection, etc.

3. Software these days is mostly sold in a box that contains little
more than a CD or CD. The cost to the manufacturer of a box and a CD
or DVD is very few cents; if they would supply a manual, the cost
would go up greatly. This is one of the reasons why software costs
have not gone up as rapidly as the cost of living has.

[Ken Springer]

Post by Ken Blake, MVP
On Sat, 3 Oct 2015 13:36:09 -0600, Ken Springer

Post by Ken Springer

Post by Roger Blake
I took a gig like that at a friend's computer shop a few years back.
It was very difficult dealing with the endless parade of the Clueless
who, due mainly to their own sheer ignorance and lack of initiative,
got themselves into trouble, lost pictures, infested up the wazoo with
malware, etc. -- I simply have no sympathy at all for such people
who I sincerly believe would be better of sticking with film cameras
and typewriters.

I blame the hardware makers and MS for a lot of this. You used to get
documentation to explain things and get you started. But no more. :-(

Unquestionably there is much less documentation than there used to be,
1. Even back when there was much more documentation, most people read
little or none of it and its absence makes very little difference to
most people.

But you usually got the quick reference cheat sheets, which I'd bet were
more often read than the full manuals. At least referred to when help
was needed.

Post by Ken Blake, MVP
2. Software documentation mostly dealt with how to use the software,
not with things like data backup, malware protection, etc.

There is no excuse for this information to not be provided by the OS
provider, be it MS or Apple.

Post by Ken Blake, MVP
3. Software these days is mostly sold in a box that contains little
more than a CD or CD. The cost to the manufacturer of a box and a CD
or DVD is very few cents; if they would supply a manual, the cost
would go up greatly. This is one of the reasons why software costs
have not gone up as rapidly as the cost of living has.

And often times, not in a box.

They could provide the manual on the install DVD, and a printed quick
reference card similar to what you get at CustomGuides.com so people can
at least get started.

[Good Guy]

I remember one woman who was in tears because the hard drive on her
computer died where she had years of family photos. I asked her
incredulously, "You're the administrator of this computer system,
didn't you make any backups?"

But you forgot to tell her (and to teach her) that in her case saving in
the cloud (google Drive or Microsoft One Drive or whatever!!) would be
the safest thing to do. It is much safer then her own HD and it gives
her something to do when she is lonely on Saturday afternoons.!!

[posterboy]

Post by Ken Springer
Rebuilding a laptop with Vista Home Premium on it, for donation to a
client of a local social services program.
The laptop has Vista Home Premium installed, that was original when it
was introduced in 2011. Those nice people at Microsoft, in their zeal
to be customer friendly, did not include Complete PC Backup and Recovery
in this version of Vista.
I want to donate the computer with a set of DVDs containing a system
image, so I'm looking for third party software that is free and easy for
a newbie/rookie/unknowing.
Years ago, I used EaseUS Free, and found very simple to use. That's
where I started. But I don't find it to be quite as easy and
straightforward any more. And I've discovered a possible bug. On the
first attempt at doing this, it appears the recovery program on the
bootable DVD does not recognize eternal USB drives. So if your system
image is there, you can't get it. I need to make some more tests on this.
I also looked at Macrium Reflect for the first time. Far too
sophisticated for my uses.
Anyone have suggestions for something a less knowledgeable user that
wouldn't cause too much anxiety? And hopefully has easy nontechnically
worded help files?

Here is a tutorial to rebuild a computer to an Out Of Box Experience.
It is told from a Windows 7 perspective but may work on Windows Vista.

http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/197255-windows-7-installation-prepare-pc-sold.html

May be worth checking out.

John

[Ken Springer]

Post by posterboy

Post by Ken Springer
Rebuilding a laptop with Vista Home Premium on it, for donation to a
client of a local social services program.
The laptop has Vista Home Premium installed, that was original when it
was introduced in 2011. Those nice people at Microsoft, in their zeal
to be customer friendly, did not include Complete PC Backup and Recovery
in this version of Vista.
I want to donate the computer with a set of DVDs containing a system
image, so I'm looking for third party software that is free and easy for
a newbie/rookie/unknowing.
Years ago, I used EaseUS Free, and found very simple to use. That's
where I started. But I don't find it to be quite as easy and
straightforward any more. And I've discovered a possible bug. On the
first attempt at doing this, it appears the recovery program on the
bootable DVD does not recognize eternal USB drives. So if your system
image is there, you can't get it. I need to make some more tests on this.
I also looked at Macrium Reflect for the first time. Far too
sophisticated for my uses.
Anyone have suggestions for something a less knowledgeable user that
wouldn't cause too much anxiety? And hopefully has easy nontechnically
worded help files?

Here is a tutorial to rebuild a computer to an Out Of Box Experience.
It is told from a Windows 7 perspective but may work on Windows Vista.
http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/197255-windows-7-installation-prepare-pc-sold.html
May be worth checking out.

Definitely a worthy read.

With the exception of secure erase, I do most of that. But with the
likely end user for my situation, I do create user accounts and tell
them how the accounts should be used.

[Zaidy036]

Post by Ken Springer
Rebuilding a laptop with Vista Home Premium on it, for donation to a
client of a local social services program.
The laptop has Vista Home Premium installed, that was original when it
was introduced in 2011. Those nice people at Microsoft, in their zeal
to be customer friendly, did not include Complete PC Backup and Recovery
in this version of Vista.
I want to donate the computer with a set of DVDs containing a system
image, so I'm looking for third party software that is free and easy for
a newbie/rookie/unknowing.
Years ago, I used EaseUS Free, and found very simple to use. That's
where I started. But I don't find it to be quite as easy and
straightforward any more. And I've discovered a possible bug. On the
first attempt at doing this, it appears the recovery program on the
bootable DVD does not recognize eternal USB drives. So if your system
image is there, you can't get it. I need to make some more tests on this.
I also looked at Macrium Reflect for the first time. Far too
sophisticated for my uses.
Anyone have suggestions for something a less knowledgeable user that
wouldn't cause too much anxiety? And hopefully has easy nontechnically
worded help files?

Why not make a batch with a TIMEOUT120 (2 minutes) before the image command.

Start the batch and disconnect from TeamViewer before the time out
completes or TIMEOUT longer and instruct the on-site user to hit a key
after you sign out from TeamViewer.

[Ron]

Post by Ken Springer
Rebuilding a laptop with Vista Home Premium on it, for donation to a
client of a local social services program.
The laptop has Vista Home Premium installed, that was original when it
was introduced in 2011.

Vista introduced in 2011?

[Ken Springer]

Post by Ron

Post by Ken Springer
Rebuilding a laptop with Vista Home Premium on it, for donation to a
client of a local social services program.
The laptop has Vista Home Premium installed, that was original when it
was introduced in 2011.

Vista introduced in 2011?

Very badly worded on my part, Ron, sorry.

The laptop was introduced in 2011.

[A.M]

Post by Ken Springer

Post by Ron

Post by Ken Springer
Rebuilding a laptop with Vista Home Premium on it, for donation to a
client of a local social services program.
The laptop has Vista Home Premium installed, that was original when it
was introduced in 2011.

Vista introduced in 2011?

Very badly worded on my part, Ron, sorry.
The laptop was introduced in 2011.

If it came out in 2011, two years after Windows 7's release, why would
it have Vista on it?

[Ken Springer]

Post by A.M

Post by Ken Springer

Post by Ron

Post by Ken Springer
Rebuilding a laptop with Vista Home Premium on it, for donation to a
client of a local social services program.
The laptop has Vista Home Premium installed, that was original when it
was introduced in 2011.

Vista introduced in 2011?

Very badly worded on my part, Ron, sorry.
The laptop was introduced in 2011.

If it came out in 2011, two years after Windows 7's release, why would
it have Vista on it?

You'll have to ask HP about that, I sure don't know. I can't find any
description for the laptop on HP's site. If you check the list of
guides available,
http://support.hp.com/us-en/product/HP-Pavilion-dv7-Entertainment-Notebook-PC-series/3744231/model/3747907/manuals
you'll note the Setup Utility is for both Vista and Window 7. The specs
on this site,
http://support.hp.com/us-en/product/HP-Pavilion-dv7-Entertainment-Notebook-PC-series/3744231/model/3747907/manuals
lists Vista as the bundled OS.

The product ID is still readable on the bottom, but the OS name has worn
off. The ID was accepted so it has to be Vista.

My guess would be it came with Vista, and X number of people upgraded to
7, or HP could have offered an upgrade.

[Ron]

Post by Ken Springer

Post by A.M

Post by Ken Springer

Post by Ron

Post by Ken Springer
Rebuilding a laptop with Vista Home Premium on it, for donation to a
client of a local social services program.
The laptop has Vista Home Premium installed, that was original when it
was introduced in 2011.

Vista introduced in 2011?

Very badly worded on my part, Ron, sorry.
The laptop was introduced in 2011.

If it came out in 2011, two years after Windows 7's release, why would
it have Vista on it?

You'll have to ask HP about that, I sure don't know. I can't find any
description for the laptop on HP's site. If you check the list of
guides available,
http://support.hp.com/us-en/product/HP-Pavilion-dv7-Entertainment-Notebook-PC-series/3744231/model/3747907/manuals
you'll note the Setup Utility is for both Vista and Window 7. The specs
on this site,
http://support.hp.com/us-en/product/HP-Pavilion-dv7-Entertainment-Notebook-PC-series/3744231/model/3747907/manuals
lists Vista as the bundled OS.
The product ID is still readable on the bottom, but the OS name has worn
off. The ID was accepted so it has to be Vista.
My guess would be it came with Vista, and X number of people upgraded to
7, or HP could have offered an upgrade.

Where are you getting 2011 from?

My Dad bought an HP DV7 series in early 2009 and it came with Vista. He
passed away in 2011 and now my sister has it. Was running great with
Vista but for some reason it wouldn't connect to AT&T's wifi (worked
fine with Comcast) and they couldn't figure out the problem. They gave
her a Netgear wireless adapter and told her the network card was bad
(Which it wasn't).

I upgraded it to Windows 7 and it connected just fine to AT&T.

http://support.hp.com/us-en/document/c01550114

<http://support.hp.com/us-en/product/HP-Pavilion-dv7-Entertainment-Notebook-PC-series/3756677/model/3795410/manuals>

Microsoft offered a Windows 7 upgrade to people that bought a Vista
machine from June 26, 2009 to January 10, 2010. They would not upgrade
his because he bought it before June 26th!

[Ken Springer]

Post by Ron

Post by Ken Springer

Post by A.M

Post by Ken Springer

Post by Ron

Post by Ken Springer
Rebuilding a laptop with Vista Home Premium on it, for donation to a
client of a local social services program.
The laptop has Vista Home Premium installed, that was original when it
was introduced in 2011.

Vista introduced in 2011?

Very badly worded on my part, Ron, sorry.
The laptop was introduced in 2011.

If it came out in 2011, two years after Windows 7's release, why would
it have Vista on it?

You'll have to ask HP about that, I sure don't know. I can't find any
description for the laptop on HP's site. If you check the list of
guides available,
http://support.hp.com/us-en/product/HP-Pavilion-dv7-Entertainment-Notebook-PC-series/3744231/model/3747907/manuals
you'll note the Setup Utility is for both Vista and Window 7. The specs
on this site,
http://support.hp.com/us-en/product/HP-Pavilion-dv7-Entertainment-Notebook-PC-series/3744231/model/3747907/manuals
lists Vista as the bundled OS.
The product ID is still readable on the bottom, but the OS name has worn
off. The ID was accepted so it has to be Vista.
My guess would be it came with Vista, and X number of people upgraded to
7, or HP could have offered an upgrade.

Where are you getting 2011 from?

Note the date in the upper left corner.
http://www8.hp.com/us/en/hp-news/press-release.html?id=991499

Post by Ron
My Dad bought an HP DV7 series in early 2009 and it came with Vista. He
passed away in 2011 and now my sister has it. Was running great with
Vista but for some reason it wouldn't connect to AT&T's wifi (worked
fine with Comcast) and they couldn't figure out the problem. They gave
her a Netgear wireless adapter and told her the network card was bad
(Which it wasn't).
I upgraded it to Windows 7 and it connected just fine to AT&T.
http://support.hp.com/us-en/document/c01550114
<http://support.hp.com/us-en/product/HP-Pavilion-dv7-Entertainment-Notebook-PC-series/3756677/model/3795410/manuals>
Microsoft offered a Windows 7 upgrade to people that bought a Vista
machine from June 26, 2009 to January 10, 2010. They would not upgrade
his because he bought it before June 26th!

[Ron]

Post by Ken Springer

Post by Ron

Post by Ken Springer

Post by A.M

Post by Ken Springer

Post by Ron

Post by Ken Springer
Rebuilding a laptop with Vista Home Premium on it, for donation to a
client of a local social services program.
The laptop has Vista Home Premium installed, that was original when it
was introduced in 2011.

Vista introduced in 2011?

Very badly worded on my part, Ron, sorry.
The laptop was introduced in 2011.

If it came out in 2011, two years after Windows 7's release, why would
it have Vista on it?

You'll have to ask HP about that, I sure don't know. I can't find any
description for the laptop on HP's site. If you check the list of
guides available,
http://support.hp.com/us-en/product/HP-Pavilion-dv7-Entertainment-Notebook-PC-series/3744231/model/3747907/manuals
you'll note the Setup Utility is for both Vista and Window 7. The specs
on this site,
http://support.hp.com/us-en/product/HP-Pavilion-dv7-Entertainment-Notebook-PC-series/3744231/model/3747907/manuals
lists Vista as the bundled OS.
The product ID is still readable on the bottom, but the OS name has worn
off. The ID was accepted so it has to be Vista.
My guess would be it came with Vista, and X number of people upgraded to
7, or HP could have offered an upgrade.

Where are you getting 2011 from?

Note the date in the upper left corner.
http://www8.hp.com/us/en/hp-news/press-release.html?id=991499

That is really weird. Also, if you click on "HP Beats™ Audio" in that
link it takes you to a page full of HP articles from 2009. WTF?

[Paul]

Post by Ron

Post by Ken Springer

Post by Ron

Post by Ken Springer

Post by A.M

Post by Ken Springer

Post by Ron

Post by Ken Springer
Rebuilding a laptop with Vista Home Premium on it, for donation to a
client of a local social services program.
The laptop has Vista Home Premium installed, that was original when it
was introduced in 2011.

Vista introduced in 2011?

Very badly worded on my part, Ron, sorry.
The laptop was introduced in 2011.

If it came out in 2011, two years after Windows 7's release, why would
it have Vista on it?

You'll have to ask HP about that, I sure don't know. I can't find any
description for the laptop on HP's site. If you check the list of
guides available,
http://support.hp.com/us-en/product/HP-Pavilion-dv7-Entertainment-Notebook-PC-series/3744231/model/3747907/manuals
you'll note the Setup Utility is for both Vista and Window 7. The specs
on this site,
http://support.hp.com/us-en/product/HP-Pavilion-dv7-Entertainment-Notebook-PC-series/3744231/model/3747907/manuals
lists Vista as the bundled OS.
The product ID is still readable on the bottom, but the OS name has worn
off. The ID was accepted so it has to be Vista.
My guess would be it came with Vista, and X number of people upgraded to
7, or HP could have offered an upgrade.

Where are you getting 2011 from?

Note the date in the upper left corner.
http://www8.hp.com/us/en/hp-news/press-release.html?id=991499

That is really weird. Also, if you click on "HP Beats™ Audio" in that
link it takes you to a page full of HP articles from 2009. WTF?

But if you go here, this site copied the text from the HP page, and
the date on this page is 2011 too.

http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/14/hp-upgrades-11-pavilion-and-probook-laptops-to-amd-llano-apus/

I tried to verify the HP page using archive.org, but the
page wasn't in there.

Paul

[Ken Springer]

Post by Ron

Post by Ken Springer

Post by Ron

Post by Ken Springer

Post by A.M

Post by Ken Springer

Post by Ron

Post by Ken Springer
Rebuilding a laptop with Vista Home Premium on it, for donation to a
client of a local social services program.
The laptop has Vista Home Premium installed, that was original when it
was introduced in 2011.

Vista introduced in 2011?

Very badly worded on my part, Ron, sorry.
The laptop was introduced in 2011.

If it came out in 2011, two years after Windows 7's release, why would
it have Vista on it?

You'll have to ask HP about that, I sure don't know. I can't find any
description for the laptop on HP's site. If you check the list of
guides available,
http://support.hp.com/us-en/product/HP-Pavilion-dv7-Entertainment-Notebook-PC-series/3744231/model/3747907/manuals
you'll note the Setup Utility is for both Vista and Window 7. The specs
on this site,
http://support.hp.com/us-en/product/HP-Pavilion-dv7-Entertainment-Notebook-PC-series/3744231/model/3747907/manuals
lists Vista as the bundled OS.
The product ID is still readable on the bottom, but the OS name has worn
off. The ID was accepted so it has to be Vista.
My guess would be it came with Vista, and X number of people upgraded to
7, or HP could have offered an upgrade.

Where are you getting 2011 from?

Note the date in the upper left corner.
http://www8.hp.com/us/en/hp-news/press-release.html?id=991499

That is really weird. Also, if you click on "HP Beats™ Audio" in that
link it takes you to a page full of HP articles from 2009. WTF?

I have no idea. But Paul has found another page with the 2011 date.
Here's a couple more...

http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/14/hp-upgrades-11-pavilion-and-probook-laptops-to-amd-llano-apus/

http://www.onlinesocialmedia.net/20110208/hp-pavilion-dv6-dv7-release-and-price-high-end-features/

And one from 2012

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Latest-version-of-the-HP-Pavilion-DV6-and-DV7-revealed.72687.0.html

This is the page I actually started with, although there is no date that
I see.

support.hp.com/us-en/product/HP-Pavilion-dv7-Entertainment-Notebook-PC-series/3744231/model/3747907/manuals

I was looking for the screen resolution at the time.

In looking at different pages, it seems the dv7t series went through a
number of changes over the years. Found 1 page that said it had Radeon
graphics. This one has Nvidia, if that is a clue worth anything.

Took it to the new owner yesterday, can't get any more technical details.

[Paul]

Post by Ken Springer

Post by Ron

Post by Ken Springer

Post by Ron

Post by Ken Springer

Post by A.M

Post by Ken Springer

Post by Ron

Post by Ken Springer
Rebuilding a laptop with Vista Home Premium on it, for donation to a
client of a local social services program.
The laptop has Vista Home Premium installed, that was original when it
was introduced in 2011.

Vista introduced in 2011?

Very badly worded on my part, Ron, sorry.
The laptop was introduced in 2011.

If it came out in 2011, two years after Windows 7's release, why would
it have Vista on it?

You'll have to ask HP about that, I sure don't know. I can't find any
description for the laptop on HP's site. If you check the list of
guides available,
http://support.hp.com/us-en/product/HP-Pavilion-dv7-Entertainment-Notebook-PC-series/3744231/model/3747907/manuals
you'll note the Setup Utility is for both Vista and Window 7. The specs
on this site,
http://support.hp.com/us-en/product/HP-Pavilion-dv7-Entertainment-Notebook-PC-series/3744231/model/3747907/manuals
lists Vista as the bundled OS.
The product ID is still readable on the bottom, but the OS name has worn
off. The ID was accepted so it has to be Vista.
My guess would be it came with Vista, and X number of people upgraded to
7, or HP could have offered an upgrade.

Where are you getting 2011 from?

Note the date in the upper left corner.
http://www8.hp.com/us/en/hp-news/press-release.html?id=991499

That is really weird. Also, if you click on "HP Beats™ Audio" in that
link it takes you to a page full of HP articles from 2009. WTF?

I have no idea. But Paul has found another page with the 2011 date.
Here's a couple more...
http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/14/hp-upgrades-11-pavilion-and-probook-laptops-to-amd-llano-apus/
http://www.onlinesocialmedia.net/20110208/hp-pavilion-dv6-dv7-release-and-price-high-end-features/
And one from 2012
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Latest-version-of-the-HP-Pavilion-DV6-and-DV7-revealed.72687.0.html
This is the page I actually started with, although there is no date that
I see.
support.hp.com/us-en/product/HP-Pavilion-dv7-Entertainment-Notebook-PC-series/3744231/model/3747907/manuals
I was looking for the screen resolution at the time.
In looking at different pages, it seems the dv7t series went through a
number of changes over the years. Found 1 page that said it had Radeon
graphics. This one has Nvidia, if that is a clue worth anything.
Took it to the new owner yesterday, can't get any more technical details.

There have been some computer lines, where one model number
contains both Intel and AMD based motherboards. So sometimes
the model number borders on worthless information (as there are
so many sub-models, you might never locate exactly what you're
looking for).

Paul

[Ron]

Post by Ken Springer

Post by Ron

Post by Ken Springer

Post by Ron

Post by Ken Springer

Post by A.M

Post by Ken Springer

Post by Ron

Post by Ken Springer
Rebuilding a laptop with Vista Home Premium on it, for donation to a
client of a local social services program.
The laptop has Vista Home Premium installed, that was original when it
was introduced in 2011.

Vista introduced in 2011?

Very badly worded on my part, Ron, sorry.
The laptop was introduced in 2011.

If it came out in 2011, two years after Windows 7's release, why would
it have Vista on it?

You'll have to ask HP about that, I sure don't know. I can't find any
description for the laptop on HP's site. If you check the list of
guides available,
http://support.hp.com/us-en/product/HP-Pavilion-dv7-Entertainment-Notebook-PC-series/3744231/model/3747907/manuals
you'll note the Setup Utility is for both Vista and Window 7. The specs
on this site,
http://support.hp.com/us-en/product/HP-Pavilion-dv7-Entertainment-Notebook-PC-series/3744231/model/3747907/manuals
lists Vista as the bundled OS.
The product ID is still readable on the bottom, but the OS name has worn
off. The ID was accepted so it has to be Vista.
My guess would be it came with Vista, and X number of people upgraded to
7, or HP could have offered an upgrade.

Where are you getting 2011 from?

Note the date in the upper left corner.
http://www8.hp.com/us/en/hp-news/press-release.html?id=991499

That is really weird. Also, if you click on "HP Beats™ Audio" in that
link it takes you to a page full of HP articles from 2009. WTF?

I have no idea. But Paul has found another page with the 2011 date.
Here's a couple more...
http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/14/hp-upgrades-11-pavilion-and-probook-laptops-to-amd-llano-apus/
http://www.onlinesocialmedia.net/20110208/hp-pavilion-dv6-dv7-release-and-price-high-end-features/
And one from 2012
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Latest-version-of-the-HP-Pavilion-DV6-and-DV7-revealed.72687.0.html
This is the page I actually started with, although there is no date that
I see.
support.hp.com/us-en/product/HP-Pavilion-dv7-Entertainment-Notebook-PC-series/3744231/model/3747907/manuals
I was looking for the screen resolution at the time.
In looking at different pages, it seems the dv7t series went through a
number of changes over the years. Found 1 page that said it had Radeon
graphics. This one has Nvidia, if that is a clue worth anything.
Took it to the new owner yesterday, can't get any more technical details.

Looks like they just kept upgrading the dv7s. Those are some really nice
laptops. Still kinda strange that the one you had came with Vista.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP_Pavilion_dv7

[Ken Springer]

Post by Ron

Post by Ken Springer

Post by Ron

Post by Ken Springer

Post by Ron

Post by Ken Springer

Post by A.M

Post by Ken Springer

Post by Ron

Post by Ken Springer
Rebuilding a laptop with Vista Home Premium on it, for donation to a
client of a local social services program.
The laptop has Vista Home Premium installed, that was original when it
was introduced in 2011.

Vista introduced in 2011?

Very badly worded on my part, Ron, sorry.
The laptop was introduced in 2011.

If it came out in 2011, two years after Windows 7's release, why would
it have Vista on it?

You'll have to ask HP about that, I sure don't know. I can't find any
description for the laptop on HP's site. If you check the list of
guides available,
http://support.hp.com/us-en/product/HP-Pavilion-dv7-Entertainment-Notebook-PC-series/3744231/model/3747907/manuals
you'll note the Setup Utility is for both Vista and Window 7. The specs
on this site,
http://support.hp.com/us-en/product/HP-Pavilion-dv7-Entertainment-Notebook-PC-series/3744231/model/3747907/manuals
lists Vista as the bundled OS.
The product ID is still readable on the bottom, but the OS name has worn
off. The ID was accepted so it has to be Vista.
My guess would be it came with Vista, and X number of people upgraded to
7, or HP could have offered an upgrade.

Where are you getting 2011 from?

Note the date in the upper left corner.
http://www8.hp.com/us/en/hp-news/press-release.html?id=991499

That is really weird. Also, if you click on "HP Beats™ Audio" in that
link it takes you to a page full of HP articles from 2009. WTF?

I have no idea. But Paul has found another page with the 2011 date.
Here's a couple more...
http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/14/hp-upgrades-11-pavilion-and-probook-laptops-to-amd-llano-apus/
http://www.onlinesocialmedia.net/20110208/hp-pavilion-dv6-dv7-release-and-price-high-end-features/
And one from 2012
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Latest-version-of-the-HP-Pavilion-DV6-and-DV7-revealed.72687.0.html
This is the page I actually started with, although there is no date that
I see.
support.hp.com/us-en/product/HP-Pavilion-dv7-Entertainment-Notebook-PC-series/3744231/model/3747907/manuals
I was looking for the screen resolution at the time.
In looking at different pages, it seems the dv7t series went through a
number of changes over the years. Found 1 page that said it had Radeon
graphics. This one has Nvidia, if that is a clue worth anything.
Took it to the new owner yesterday, can't get any more technical details.

Looks like they just kept upgrading the dv7s. Those are some really nice
laptops. Still kinda strange that the one you had came with Vista.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP_Pavilion_dv7

That is also my impression.

And...... I'm not going to worry about it. Vista is activated with the
ID on computer, that's good enough for me. LOL

[Charlie]

Post by Ken Springer

Post by Ron

Post by Ken Springer

Post by Ron

Post by Ken Springer

Post by Ron

Post by Ken Springer

Post by A.M

Post by Ken Springer

Post by Ron

Post by Ken Springer
Rebuilding a laptop with Vista Home Premium on it, for donation to a
client of a local social services program.
The laptop has Vista Home Premium installed, that was original when it
was introduced in 2011.

Vista introduced in 2011?

Very badly worded on my part, Ron, sorry.
The laptop was introduced in 2011.

If it came out in 2011, two years after Windows 7's release, why would
it have Vista on it?

You'll have to ask HP about that, I sure don't know. I can't find any
description for the laptop on HP's site. If you check the list of
guides available,
http://support.hp.com/us-en/product/HP-Pavilion-dv7-Entertainment-Notebook-PC-series/3744231/model/3747907/manuals
you'll note the Setup Utility is for both Vista and Window 7. The specs
on this site,
http://support.hp.com/us-en/product/HP-Pavilion-dv7-Entertainment-Notebook-PC-series/3744231/model/3747907/manuals
lists Vista as the bundled OS.
The product ID is still readable on the bottom, but the OS name has worn
off. The ID was accepted so it has to be Vista.
My guess would be it came with Vista, and X number of people upgraded to
7, or HP could have offered an upgrade.

Where are you getting 2011 from?

Note the date in the upper left corner.
http://www8.hp.com/us/en/hp-news/press-release.html?id=991499

That is really weird. Also, if you click on "HP Beats™ Audio" in that
link it takes you to a page full of HP articles from 2009. WTF?

I have no idea. But Paul has found another page with the 2011 date.
Here's a couple more...
http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/14/hp-upgrades-11-pavilion-and-probook-laptops-to-amd-llano-apus/
http://www.onlinesocialmedia.net/20110208/hp-pavilion-dv6-dv7-release-and-price-high-end-features/
And one from 2012
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Latest-version-of-the-HP-Pavilion-DV6-and-DV7-revealed.72687.0.html
This is the page I actually started with, although there is no date that
I see.
support.hp.com/us-en/product/HP-Pavilion-dv7-Entertainment-Notebook-PC-series/3744231/model/3747907/manuals
I was looking for the screen resolution at the time.
In looking at different pages, it seems the dv7t series went through a
number of changes over the years. Found 1 page that said it had Radeon
graphics. This one has Nvidia, if that is a clue worth anything.
Took it to the new owner yesterday, can't get any more technical details.

Looks like they just kept upgrading the dv7s. Those are some really nice
laptops. Still kinda strange that the one you had came with Vista.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP_Pavilion_dv7

That is also my impression.
And...... I'm not going to worry about it. Vista is activated with the
ID on computer, that's good enough for me. LOL

HP had a line of laptops that were intended for multimedia business and
home. Some could be backdated to XP or updated to win 7 from Vista.
The problems with some had to do with driver availability for the video,
sound, and multimedia devices. The one I have actually dates from 2007
or so.

[A.M]

Post by Ken Springer

Post by A.M

Post by Ken Springer

Post by Ron

Post by Ken Springer
Rebuilding a laptop with Vista Home Premium on it, for donation to a
client of a local social services program.
The laptop has Vista Home Premium installed, that was original when it
was introduced in 2011.

Vista introduced in 2011?

Very badly worded on my part, Ron, sorry.
The laptop was introduced in 2011.

If it came out in 2011, two years after Windows 7's release, why would
it have Vista on it?

You'll have to ask HP about that, I sure don't know. I can't find any
description for the laptop on HP's site. If you check the list of
guides available,
http://support.hp.com/us-en/product/HP-Pavilion-dv7-Entertainment-Notebook-PC-series/3744231/model/3747907/manuals
you'll note the Setup Utility is for both Vista and Window 7. The specs
on this site,
http://support.hp.com/us-en/product/HP-Pavilion-dv7-Entertainment-Notebook-PC-series/3744231/model/3747907/manuals
lists Vista as the bundled OS.
The product ID is still readable on the bottom, but the OS name has worn
off. The ID was accepted so it has to be Vista.
My guess would be it came with Vista, and X number of people upgraded to
7, or HP could have offered an upgrade.

I would have understood that if it came out during the months before 7
was out, like in the summer of 2009. 2011 seems a stretch, but HP was a
mess for a long time and I guess it makes sense.

[A.M]

Post by Ron

Post by Ken Springer
Rebuilding a laptop with Vista Home Premium on it, for donation to a
client of a local social services program.
The laptop has Vista Home Premium installed, that was original when it
was introduced in 2011.

Vista introduced in 2011?

Vista in the beginning of 2007 and Windows 7 at the end of 2009. Nothing
was introduced in 2011 but Windows 8 arrived in 2012.

[Ken Springer]

Post by Ken Springer
Rebuilding a laptop with Vista Home Premium on it, for donation to a
client of a local social services program.
The laptop has Vista Home Premium installed, that was original when it
was introduced in 2011. Those nice people at Microsoft, in their zeal
to be customer friendly, did not include Complete PC Backup and Recovery
in this version of Vista.
I want to donate the computer with a set of DVDs containing a system
image, so I'm looking for third party software that is free and easy for
a newbie/rookie/unknowing.
Years ago, I used EaseUS Free, and found very simple to use. That's
where I started. But I don't find it to be quite as easy and
straightforward any more. And I've discovered a possible bug. On the
first attempt at doing this, it appears the recovery program on the
bootable DVD does not recognize eternal USB drives. So if your system
image is there, you can't get it. I need to make some more tests on this.
I also looked at Macrium Reflect for the first time. Far too
sophisticated for my uses.
Anyone have suggestions for something a less knowledgeable user that
wouldn't cause too much anxiety? And hopefully has easy nontechnically
worded help files?

Unfortunately, I had to give the computer to the new owner sooner than I
wanted to. So no backup software was installed.

I was leaning towards the AOMEI Backupper, a very simple interface that
seems more powerful than you'd expect. But I found two problems. I
never could get a DVD backup to work, and the other issue is probably
with the WinPE interface. I sent an email to AOMEI about the DVD issue,
but have not heard back.

[CRNG]

On Mon, 5 Oct 2015 19:38:55 -0600, Ken Springer

Post by Ken Springer

Post by Ken Springer
Rebuilding a laptop with Vista Home Premium on it, for donation to a
client of a local social services program.
The laptop has Vista Home Premium installed, that was original when it
was introduced in 2011. Those nice people at Microsoft, in their zeal
to be customer friendly, did not include Complete PC Backup and Recovery
in this version of Vista.
I want to donate the computer with a set of DVDs containing a system
image, so I'm looking for third party software that is free and easy for
a newbie/rookie/unknowing.
Years ago, I used EaseUS Free, and found very simple to use. That's
where I started. But I don't find it to be quite as easy and
straightforward any more. And I've discovered a possible bug. On the
first attempt at doing this, it appears the recovery program on the
bootable DVD does not recognize eternal USB drives. So if your system
image is there, you can't get it. I need to make some more tests on this.
I also looked at Macrium Reflect for the first time. Far too
sophisticated for my uses.
Anyone have suggestions for something a less knowledgeable user that
wouldn't cause too much anxiety? And hopefully has easy nontechnically
worded help files?

Unfortunately, I had to give the computer to the new owner sooner than I
wanted to. So no backup software was installed.
I was leaning towards the AOMEI Backupper, a very simple interface that
seems more powerful than you'd expect. But I found two problems. I
never could get a DVD backup to work, and the other issue is probably
with the WinPE interface. I sent an email to AOMEI about the DVD issue,
but have not heard back.

Take a look at DIxml

http://www.runtime.org/dixml.htm

It's very small (< 2Mb) and simple. It saved my life several times.
However, it does require a 3rd party windows emergency boot/run disk
such as BartPE to restore the C: drive

http://www.nu2.nu/pebuilder/

which, IMO, everyone should have anyway.

[Ken Springer]

Post by CRNG
On Mon, 5 Oct 2015 19:38:55 -0600, Ken Springer

Post by Ken Springer

Post by Ken Springer
Rebuilding a laptop with Vista Home Premium on it, for donation to a
client of a local social services program.
The laptop has Vista Home Premium installed, that was original when it
was introduced in 2011. Those nice people at Microsoft, in their zeal
to be customer friendly, did not include Complete PC Backup and Recovery
in this version of Vista.
I want to donate the computer with a set of DVDs containing a system
image, so I'm looking for third party software that is free and easy for
a newbie/rookie/unknowing.
Years ago, I used EaseUS Free, and found very simple to use. That's
where I started. But I don't find it to be quite as easy and
straightforward any more. And I've discovered a possible bug. On the
first attempt at doing this, it appears the recovery program on the
bootable DVD does not recognize eternal USB drives. So if your system
image is there, you can't get it. I need to make some more tests on this.
I also looked at Macrium Reflect for the first time. Far too
sophisticated for my uses.
Anyone have suggestions for something a less knowledgeable user that
wouldn't cause too much anxiety? And hopefully has easy nontechnically
worded help files?

Unfortunately, I had to give the computer to the new owner sooner than I
wanted to. So no backup software was installed.
I was leaning towards the AOMEI Backupper, a very simple interface that
seems more powerful than you'd expect. But I found two problems. I
never could get a DVD backup to work, and the other issue is probably
with the WinPE interface. I sent an email to AOMEI about the DVD issue,
but have not heard back.

Take a look at DIxml
http://www.runtime.org/dixml.htm
It's very small (< 2Mb) and simple. It saved my life several times.
However, it does require a 3rd party windows emergency boot/run disk
such as BartPE to restore the C: drive
http://www.nu2.nu/pebuilder/
which, IMO, everyone should have anyway.

Thanks for those links. I'll check them out later, but at first glance
at the screenshots, it may be confusing to the mostly computer
illiterate I come in contact with.

The AOMEI interfaces isn't very intimidating, which for my uses is a big
plus.

[Nomen Nescio]

Post by CRNG
On Mon, 5 Oct 2015 19:38:55 -0600, Ken Springer

Post by Ken Springer
Rebuilding a laptop with Vista Home Premium on it, for donation to a
client of a local social services program.
The laptop has Vista Home Premium installed, that was original when it
was introduced in 2011. Those nice people at Microsoft, in their zeal
to be customer friendly, did not include Complete PC Backup and Recovery
in this version of Vista.
I want to donate the computer with a set of DVDs containing a system
image, so I'm looking for third party software that is free and easy for
a newbie/rookie/unknowing.
Years ago, I used EaseUS Free, and found very simple to use. That's
where I started. But I don't find it to be quite as easy and
straightforward any more. And I've discovered a possible bug. On the
first attempt at doing this, it appears the recovery program on the
bootable DVD does not recognize eternal USB drives. So if your system
image is there, you can't get it. I need to make some more tests on this.
I also looked at Macrium Reflect for the first time. Far too
sophisticated for my uses.

I suggest you reconsider Macrium (Free). Just use the defaults and
schedule a weekly run. The paid version offers a pletora of options
that may be daunting for some, but the Free version (not the full
version trial) is rather easy to use, and it is reliable.

For extra protection, create the bootable CD (or USB pen drive).
The "Linux" version is a bit simpler than the Win PE option, and
works just as well.

[Ken Springer]

Post by Nomen Nescio

Post by CRNG
On Mon, 5 Oct 2015 19:38:55 -0600, Ken Springer

Post by Ken Springer
Rebuilding a laptop with Vista Home Premium on it, for donation to a
client of a local social services program.
The laptop has Vista Home Premium installed, that was original when it
was introduced in 2011. Those nice people at Microsoft, in their zeal
to be customer friendly, did not include Complete PC Backup and Recovery
in this version of Vista.
I want to donate the computer with a set of DVDs containing a system
image, so I'm looking for third party software that is free and easy for
a newbie/rookie/unknowing.
Years ago, I used EaseUS Free, and found very simple to use. That's
where I started. But I don't find it to be quite as easy and
straightforward any more. And I've discovered a possible bug. On the
first attempt at doing this, it appears the recovery program on the
bootable DVD does not recognize eternal USB drives. So if your system
image is there, you can't get it. I need to make some more tests on this.
I also looked at Macrium Reflect for the first time. Far too
sophisticated for my uses.

I suggest you reconsider Macrium (Free). Just use the defaults and
schedule a weekly run. The paid version offers a pletora of options
that may be daunting for some, but the Free version (not the full
version trial) is rather easy to use, and it is reliable.
For extra protection, create the bootable CD (or USB pen drive).
The "Linux" version is a bit simpler than the Win PE option, and
works just as well.

If the computer were for my use, I would do just that.

But having met the new owner, I'm sure the MR interface would simply
confuse him.

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <***@dizum.com>, Nomen Nescio
<***@dizum.com> writes:
[]

Post by Nomen Nescio
For extra protection, create the bootable CD (or USB pen drive).
The "Linux" version is a bit simpler than the Win PE option, and
works just as well.

Rather than "extra" protection, I'd say that should be the _first_ thing
to do: without something bootable, any backup made is of little use.
(And even the WinPE version [of Macrium free] will fit on a mini-CD, or
would last time I made it.)

[Mike Barnes]

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]

Post by Nomen Nescio
For extra protection, create the bootable CD (or USB pen drive).
The "Linux" version is a bit simpler than the Win PE option, and
works just as well.

Rather than "extra" protection, I'd say that should be the _first_ thing
to do: without something bootable, any backup made is of little use.

AFAICS the pre-made boot disk simply makes bare metal recovery more
convenient. It's not as if your Macrium image backup would be useless
without it.

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

Post by Mike Barnes

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]

Post by Nomen Nescio
For extra protection, create the bootable CD (or USB pen drive).
The "Linux" version is a bit simpler than the Win PE option, and
works just as well.

Rather than "extra" protection, I'd say that should be the _first_ thing
to do: without something bootable, any backup made is of little use.

AFAICS the pre-made boot disk simply makes bare metal recovery more
convenient. It's not as if your Macrium image backup would be useless
without it.

Well, with access to another computer, no. If you only have the one
whose disc has died, yes.

[Mike Barnes]

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by Mike Barnes

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]

Post by Nomen Nescio
For extra protection, create the bootable CD (or USB pen drive).
The "Linux" version is a bit simpler than the Win PE option, and
works just as well.

Rather than "extra" protection, I'd say that should be the _first_ thing
to do: without something bootable, any backup made is of little use.

AFAICS the pre-made boot disk simply makes bare metal recovery more
convenient. It's not as if your Macrium image backup would be useless
without it.

Well, with access to another computer, no. If you only have the one
whose disc has died, yes.

Well, you've presumably replaced that dead disk. :-)

Then you have other options. For instance, install a copy of Windows
(any Windows; no need to activate it). Download Macrium Free. Make a
rescue disk. Boot from that disk. Restore your image.

I've never had to do that but I don't see how it could fail. Unless
anyone knows better.

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

Post by Mike Barnes

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by Mike Barnes

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]

Post by Nomen Nescio
For extra protection, create the bootable CD (or USB pen drive).
The "Linux" version is a bit simpler than the Win PE option, and
works just as well.

Rather than "extra" protection, I'd say that should be the _first_ thing
to do: without something bootable, any backup made is of little use.

AFAICS the pre-made boot disk simply makes bare metal recovery more
convenient. It's not as if your Macrium image backup would be useless
without it.

Well, with access to another computer, no. If you only have the one
whose disc has died, yes.

Well, you've presumably replaced that dead disk. :-)

Yes, but (a) I _did_ have other computers to hand, (b) after unsticking
it I did manage to get it working well enough to get stuff off it.

Post by Mike Barnes
Then you have other options. For instance, install a copy of Windows
(any Windows; no need to activate it). Download Macrium Free. Make a
rescue disk. Boot from that disk. Restore your image.
I've never had to do that but I don't see how it could fail. Unless
anyone knows better.

OK. Yes, that would work, but installing a copy of Windows just to be
able to do what I said do in the first place (make the boot disc) is an
awful lot of effort! And it assumes you have access to an install medium
- either that or you have to buy one.

[Mike Barnes]

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by Mike Barnes

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by Mike Barnes

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]

Post by Nomen Nescio
For extra protection, create the bootable CD (or USB pen drive).
The "Linux" version is a bit simpler than the Win PE option, and
works just as well.

Rather than "extra" protection, I'd say that should be the _first_ thing
to do: without something bootable, any backup made is of little use.

AFAICS the pre-made boot disk simply makes bare metal recovery more
convenient. It's not as if your Macrium image backup would be useless
without it.

Well, with access to another computer, no. If you only have the one
whose disc has died, yes.

Well, you've presumably replaced that dead disk. :-)

Yes, but (a) I _did_ have other computers to hand, (b) after unsticking
it I did manage to get it working well enough to get stuff off it.

Post by Mike Barnes
Then you have other options. For instance, install a copy of Windows
(any Windows; no need to activate it). Download Macrium Free. Make a
rescue disk. Boot from that disk. Restore your image.
I've never had to do that but I don't see how it could fail. Unless
anyone knows better.

OK. Yes, that would work, but installing a copy of Windows just to be
able to do what I said do in the first place (make the boot disc) is an
awful lot of effort! And it assumes you have access to an install medium
- either that or you have to buy one.

Quite so, but initially you wrote that the image backup was "of little
use" without the rescue disk. I think you now see that that isn't so. As
I said earlier, having a rescue disk to hand makes recovery "more
convenient" - that's all.

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

[]

Post by Mike Barnes

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
OK. Yes, that would work, but installing a copy of Windows just to be
able to do what I said do in the first place (make the boot disc) is an
awful lot of effort! And it assumes you have access to an install medium
- either that or you have to buy one.

Quite so, but initially you wrote that the image backup was "of little
use" without the rescue disk. I think you now see that that isn't so.
As I said earlier, having a rescue disk to hand makes recovery "more
convenient" - that's all.

OK. The image backup is of little use without the rescue disc - or an
alternative OS you can install (-:.

I know what you mean: the backup image on its own _is_ theoretically
still of use. Just not immediately ...

[Brian Gregory]

Post by Ken Springer
Rebuilding a laptop with Vista Home Premium on it, for donation to a
client of a local social services program.
The laptop has Vista Home Premium installed, that was original when it
was introduced in 2011. Those nice people at Microsoft, in their zeal
to be customer friendly, did not include Complete PC Backup and Recovery
in this version of Vista.
I want to donate the computer with a set of DVDs containing a system
image, so I'm looking for third party software that is free and easy for
a newbie/rookie/unknowing.
Years ago, I used EaseUS Free, and found very simple to use. That's
where I started. But I don't find it to be quite as easy and
straightforward any more. And I've discovered a possible bug. On the
first attempt at doing this, it appears the recovery program on the
bootable DVD does not recognize eternal USB drives. So if your system
image is there, you can't get it. I need to make some more tests on this.
I also looked at Macrium Reflect for the first time. Far too
sophisticated for my uses.
Anyone have suggestions for something a less knowledgeable user that
wouldn't cause too much anxiety? And hopefully has easy nontechnically
worded help files?

I like this:
http://www.drivesnapshot.de/en/
but it's still not really dead simple.