Discussion:
Creating personal data/special folders
(too old to reply)
Ken Springer
2015-05-20 17:12:21 UTC
Permalink
Cross posted to 4 groups, as it probably applies to all these versions
of Windows. Probably applies to older ones and Windows 10, but I don't
follow those groups.

I've never used this "system" as created by MS. It simply doesn't offer
a categorization/organization method/means that makes sense to me. I
know a lot of people have no problems with this method, which is
perfectly OK.

I'm currently resurrecting a Vista system for donation, and as I was
relocating the personal data folders from the boot partition to another
partition, it suddenly occurred to me... Why can't I create my own
special folders?

I started experimenting on the Vista system, and all went well until I
relocated the folder I created. No can do. I can put the folder
somewhere else manually, but it won't show up in the personal folders area.

I'm still looking, but I found an article relating to Win 7 about doing
this, and apparently I need to create a "symbolic link" somehow, using
an elevated command windows.

I know nothing about symbolic links, so will have to start researching this.

But I was wondering if anyone knows of a GUI utility that will do all of
this for me rather than a command line operation. Ideally, it would
insert itself into the OS in some manner, rather like the Add Print
Directory fix you can get from MS.

And does anyone know of a really simple article on symbolic links that I
can start from?

It would also be nice if I could add selected folders I create, or one
of the default folders, to the Start Menu.

Thanks.
--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 36.0.4
Thunderbird 31.5
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"
Paul
2015-05-20 20:46:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Springer
Cross posted to 4 groups, as it probably applies to all these versions
of Windows. Probably applies to older ones and Windows 10, but I don't
follow those groups.
I've never used this "system" as created by MS. It simply doesn't offer
a categorization/organization method/means that makes sense to me. I
know a lot of people have no problems with this method, which is
perfectly OK.
I'm currently resurrecting a Vista system for donation, and as I was
relocating the personal data folders from the boot partition to another
partition, it suddenly occurred to me... Why can't I create my own
special folders?
I started experimenting on the Vista system, and all went well until I
relocated the folder I created. No can do. I can put the folder
somewhere else manually, but it won't show up in the personal folders area.
I'm still looking, but I found an article relating to Win 7 about doing
this, and apparently I need to create a "symbolic link" somehow, using
an elevated command windows.
I know nothing about symbolic links, so will have to start researching this.
But I was wondering if anyone knows of a GUI utility that will do all of
this for me rather than a command line operation. Ideally, it would
insert itself into the OS in some manner, rather like the Add Print
Directory fix you can get from MS.
And does anyone know of a really simple article on symbolic links that I
can start from?
It would also be nice if I could add selected folders I create, or one
of the default folders, to the Start Menu.
Thanks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbolic_link

"Windows symbolic link
Main article: NTFS symbolic link

Windows Vista and later support symbolic links for
both files and directories with the command line utility

mklink

Unlike junction points, a symbolic link can also point
to a file or remote Server Message Block (SMB) network path.
Additionally, the NTFS symbolic link implementation provides
full support for cross-filesystem links. However, the
functionality enabling cross-host symbolic links requires
that the remote system also support them, which effectively
limits their support to Windows Vista and later Windows
operating systems."

So you want to try

mklink /?

for help. Something along the basic form of:

mklink fake_name_or_path real_name_or_path

Similar to the Unix

ln -s real_name_or_path fake_name_or_path

Requiring you to always read the instructions
before making a link :-) Because you are bound to
forget the order of parameters.

On your Mac, if you dropped to Terminal, you
should be able to do something like

man ln

to see how the Linux/Unix version works. That's if
you're curious about the order of the parameters.

*******

A little philosophy for you:

If making up a machine for donation, resist the
urge to be creative...

1) Leave the library pointers alone.

Moving libraries from C: to D: for example, as
a clever means to supporting some sort of backup
strategy, will break Service Pack installation.

Microsoft installation software does not tolerate
this option well, even though they put the
infrastructure in place for you to booby-trap
your installation. This is a limitation caused
by Microsoft, and it's not your fault.

2) Try not to create "unique" support jobs for
other technicians. Keep your customers best
interests in mind. If you create a "fake flavor of library",
then the customer takes the machine to Geek Squad,
maybe all the files in the clever library structure,
are erased by ham-fisted techs.

By keeping the installation bog standard, sure, maybe
the backup structure isn't as spiffy as you would like,
but you're also not booby trapping the installation
in such a way, that the Junior Geek Squad person
doesn't destroy something by accident. For example,
the Geek Squad may attempt an Upgrade Install,
overwriting the OS. Which is an instance of (1) - namely,
now your custom library will interfere with the attempt
at Upgrade Install (say, for malware flushing by hotshot
tech). The Upgrade Install will back out on its own,
the tech will get angry, and do a Clean Install.

And for anyone considering a trip to Geek Squad or
equivalent - *always* back up your computer before
taking a computer to the shop. Even if it means
using dd style "sector-by-sector" backup because
the file system is broken. Ask for help here, if you
need hints. The reason for the recommendation, is
because the shops use "script-based" treatment of
customer machines (i.e. the boss tells them to
reinstall the OS, even when it isn't needed). If
you take a computer in to have the CMOS battery changed,
a Junior Tech may reformat the hard drive and
Reinstall Windows. This has actually happened...
and more than once. Having a backup stored on an
external USB drive you keep at home, is your
protection from this sort of thing.

*******

You can do what you want with respect to your
experimental Library, but try to keep the KISS
principle in mind.

Paul
Ken Springer
2015-05-21 13:08:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul
Post by Ken Springer
Cross posted to 4 groups, as it probably applies to all these versions
of Windows. Probably applies to older ones and Windows 10, but I don't
follow those groups.
I've never used this "system" as created by MS. It simply doesn't offer
a categorization/organization method/means that makes sense to me. I
know a lot of people have no problems with this method, which is
perfectly OK.
I'm currently resurrecting a Vista system for donation, and as I was
relocating the personal data folders from the boot partition to another
partition, it suddenly occurred to me... Why can't I create my own
special folders?
I started experimenting on the Vista system, and all went well until I
relocated the folder I created. No can do. I can put the folder
somewhere else manually, but it won't show up in the personal folders area.
I'm still looking, but I found an article relating to Win 7 about doing
this, and apparently I need to create a "symbolic link" somehow, using
an elevated command windows.
I know nothing about symbolic links, so will have to start researching this.
But I was wondering if anyone knows of a GUI utility that will do all of
this for me rather than a command line operation. Ideally, it would
insert itself into the OS in some manner, rather like the Add Print
Directory fix you can get from MS.
And does anyone know of a really simple article on symbolic links that I
can start from?
It would also be nice if I could add selected folders I create, or one
of the default folders, to the Start Menu.
Thanks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbolic_link
"Windows symbolic link
Main article: NTFS symbolic link
Windows Vista and later support symbolic links for
both files and directories with the command line utility
mklink
Unlike junction points, a symbolic link can also point
to a file or remote Server Message Block (SMB) network path.
Additionally, the NTFS symbolic link implementation provides
full support for cross-filesystem links. However, the
functionality enabling cross-host symbolic links requires
that the remote system also support them, which effectively
limits their support to Windows Vista and later Windows
operating systems."
So you want to try
mklink /?
mklink fake_name_or_path real_name_or_path
Similar to the Unix
ln -s real_name_or_path fake_name_or_path
Requiring you to always read the instructions
before making a link :-) Because you are bound to
forget the order of parameters.
On your Mac, if you dropped to Terminal, you
should be able to do something like
man ln
to see how the Linux/Unix version works. That's if
you're curious about the order of the parameters.
That's a good article. I'll have to take my time and go through it a
couple of times. I didn't see actual instructions on how to create the
link, though. But I found a couple pages on the web that walks you
through it.
Post by Paul
*******
If making up a machine for donation, resist the
urge to be creative...
1) Leave the library pointers alone.
Moving libraries from C: to D: for example, as
a clever means to supporting some sort of backup
strategy, will break Service Pack installation.
Microsoft installation software does not tolerate
this option well, even though they put the
infrastructure in place for you to booby-trap
your installation. This is a limitation caused
by Microsoft, and it's not your fault.
That's never been on my list for a free machine. But I would like to do
move the pointer files for libraries from C: to D: but I've never found
a way to do it similar to relocating actual data folders. But, there is
a utility out there that will backup those files for you, or you could
manually make your own copies somewhere. Then, should you have
reinstall the operating system, just copy the original files over the
new ones, and your libraries are restored.

I never liked the way the libraries worked anyway. Then I found a way
to make them work as I wanted, which made me happy.

This idea of adding additional folders is for my computer, not the ones
I donate. The Vista machine is simply available for testing the idea.
Post by Paul
2) Try not to create "unique" support jobs for
other technicians. Keep your customers best
interests in mind. If you create a "fake flavor of library",
then the customer takes the machine to Geek Squad,
maybe all the files in the clever library structure,
are erased by ham-fisted techs.
I don't do that, no really sneaky stuff or even manual registry edits.
Just what you can do from the interface. And I always provide written
documentation for what I've done, and why.
Post by Paul
By keeping the installation bog standard, sure, maybe
the backup structure isn't as spiffy as you would like,
but you're also not booby trapping the installation
in such a way, that the Junior Geek Squad person
doesn't destroy something by accident. For example,
the Geek Squad may attempt an Upgrade Install,
overwriting the OS. Which is an instance of (1) - namely,
now your custom library will interfere with the attempt
at Upgrade Install (say, for malware flushing by hotshot
tech). The Upgrade Install will back out on its own,
the tech will get angry, and do a Clean Install.
I always create a set of disks containing a system image, so the new
owner can put the computer back to the way it was when he first go it.
Most of the XP machines had a valid restore partition from the
manufacturer. For those that didn't, I'd create the image using EaseUS
TODO Backup, and give them an EaseUS boot disk to reinstall with. And I
always test it first.

For this Vista computer, I'm going to use Vista's Complete PC backup
system. And I've got a copy of Vista Inside Out on CD, and I'll include
the pages on how to use it.
Post by Paul
And for anyone considering a trip to Geek Squad or
equivalent - *always* back up your computer before
taking a computer to the shop. Even if it means
using dd style "sector-by-sector" backup because
the file system is broken. Ask for help here, if you
need hints. The reason for the recommendation, is
because the shops use "script-based" treatment of
customer machines (i.e. the boss tells them to
reinstall the OS, even when it isn't needed). If
you take a computer in to have the CMOS battery changed,
a Junior Tech may reformat the hard drive and
Reinstall Windows. This has actually happened...
and more than once. Having a backup stored on an
external USB drive you keep at home, is your
protection from this sort of thing.
*******
You can do what you want with respect to your
experimental Library, but try to keep the KISS
principle in mind.
I do KISS everywhere. What I do to the computers is also a small
attempt at keeping the new owner, which I assume may never have owned a
computer before, from making such a drastic mistake they end up losing
their data too.

At least, as best I can. And at least 99.9999999999999% legal. The
only grey area that sometimes occurs is the OS disk copies I give them.
Not always sure it technically meets the EULA, but if the computer
validates with the product code that's on the label on the computer, I'm
happy. MS isn't out financially, since it's been paid for once, and the
new owners wouldn't be buying a computer anyway. And MS has another
Windows user in the flock. :-(

If you're going to steal software, Bill wanted you to steal his. LOL
--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 36.0.4
Thunderbird 31.5
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"
Wolf K
2015-05-23 13:12:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul
Post by Ken Springer
Cross posted to 4 groups, as it probably applies to all these versions
of Windows. Probably applies to older ones and Windows 10, but I
don't follow those groups.
I've never used this "system" as created by MS. It simply doesn't
offer a categorization/organization method/means that makes sense to
me. I know a lot of people have no problems with this method, which
is perfectly OK.
I'm currently resurrecting a Vista system for donation, and as I was
relocating the personal data folders from the boot partition to
another partition, it suddenly occurred to me... Why can't I create
my own special folders?
I started experimenting on the Vista system, and all went well until I
relocated the folder I created. No can do. I can put the folder
somewhere else manually, but it won't show up in the personal folders area.
I'm still looking, but I found an article relating to Win 7 about
doing this, and apparently I need to create a "symbolic link" somehow,
using an elevated command windows.
I know nothing about symbolic links, so will have to start researching this.
But I was wondering if anyone knows of a GUI utility that will do all
of this for me rather than a command line operation. Ideally, it
would insert itself into the OS in some manner, rather like the Add
Print Directory fix you can get from MS.
And does anyone know of a really simple article on symbolic links that
I can start from?
It would also be nice if I could add selected folders I create, or one
of the default folders, to the Start Menu.
Thanks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbolic_link
"Windows symbolic link
Main article: NTFS symbolic link
Windows Vista and later support symbolic links for
both files and directories with the command line utility
mklink
Unlike junction points, a symbolic link can also point
to a file or remote Server Message Block (SMB) network path.
Additionally, the NTFS symbolic link implementation provides
full support for cross-filesystem links. However, the
functionality enabling cross-host symbolic links requires
that the remote system also support them, which effectively
limits their support to Windows Vista and later Windows
operating systems."
[Etc]

Seeing that this thread as become inordinately long, I checked the OP.
Here's my take on his plaintive plea.

Just make shortcuts. A shortcut is a symbolic link. Make as many as you
want, wherever you want. Make a folder of shortcuts, and make a shortcut
for it. Etc. The symbolic link as described is for access to other
computers. There are simpler ways of doing that once the computer is
part of a network such as Workgroup or Homegroup. But that's up to
whoever receives the donated computer.

I _strongly_ second Paul's philosophy section. Any computer you donate
should basically be in As Delivered condition. You can add a few
freebies, such as Firefox or Classic Media Player, but that's as far I
would go.

Have a good day,
--
Best,
Wolf K
kirkwood40.blogspot.ca
Ken Springer
2015-05-23 14:58:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wolf K
Post by Paul
Post by Ken Springer
Cross posted to 4 groups, as it probably applies to all these versions
of Windows. Probably applies to older ones and Windows 10, but I
don't follow those groups.
I've never used this "system" as created by MS. It simply doesn't
offer a categorization/organization method/means that makes sense to
me. I know a lot of people have no problems with this method, which
is perfectly OK.
I'm currently resurrecting a Vista system for donation, and as I was
relocating the personal data folders from the boot partition to
another partition, it suddenly occurred to me... Why can't I create
my own special folders?
I started experimenting on the Vista system, and all went well until I
relocated the folder I created. No can do. I can put the folder
somewhere else manually, but it won't show up in the personal folders area.
I'm still looking, but I found an article relating to Win 7 about
doing this, and apparently I need to create a "symbolic link" somehow,
using an elevated command windows.
I know nothing about symbolic links, so will have to start researching this.
But I was wondering if anyone knows of a GUI utility that will do all
of this for me rather than a command line operation. Ideally, it
would insert itself into the OS in some manner, rather like the Add
Print Directory fix you can get from MS.
And does anyone know of a really simple article on symbolic links that
I can start from?
It would also be nice if I could add selected folders I create, or one
of the default folders, to the Start Menu.
Thanks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbolic_link
"Windows symbolic link
Main article: NTFS symbolic link
Windows Vista and later support symbolic links for
both files and directories with the command line utility
mklink
Unlike junction points, a symbolic link can also point
to a file or remote Server Message Block (SMB) network path.
Additionally, the NTFS symbolic link implementation provides
full support for cross-filesystem links. However, the
functionality enabling cross-host symbolic links requires
that the remote system also support them, which effectively
limits their support to Windows Vista and later Windows
operating systems."
[Etc]
Seeing that this thread as become inordinately long, I checked the OP.
Here's my take on his plaintive plea.
Just make shortcuts. A shortcut is a symbolic link. Make as many as you
want, wherever you want. Make a folder of shortcuts, and make a shortcut
for it. Etc. The symbolic link as described is for access to other
computers. There are simpler ways of doing that once the computer is
part of a network such as Workgroup or Homegroup. But that's up to
whoever receives the donated computer.
It seems I've misled folks unintentionally, and I apologize for that.

The idea of adding personal folders was never intended to be for any
computer I donate. It's for my purposes and use, as were all the
library discussions I've had here. I've got a brother-in-law and a
nephew I'd pass the info to, but that's about all. <G>
Post by Wolf K
I _strongly_ second Paul's philosophy section. Any computer you donate
should basically be in As Delivered condition. You can add a few
freebies, such as Firefox or Classic Media Player, but that's as far I
would go.
Remember the days of Win 95 and 98, when a computer came with some basic
software installed? Such as MS Works, Media Center, etc.? As most of
these folks can't afford a computer, it's fairly logical they can't
afford commercial software. So I install free stuff, like WPS Office
(formerly Kingsoft), VideoLAN, free AV usually Avira, etc.

Since I'm supplying the monitor, I change the resolution for the best
display the monitor can provide. Adjust icon spacing, etc. as needed,
different wallpaper (just for the fun of it, and it helps me remember
which account I'm in. LOL) Enable Clear Type. I've not looked, but I
suspect the settings of new computers are pretty much what I end up
having when done. I mean, would you really want a computer with 800 X
600 screen resolution. :-)

I set up basic accounts because of the malware issues these days, but a
tutorial of why it's done and how to properly use them is supplied with
the computer.

Likewise for the printer I supply.

The most radical thing I do is partition the hard drive, and move the
data storage to the new partition. Relocating those personal data files
LOL And the new owners get instructions on never putting files on
C:\. LOL

I probably spend more time writing the documentation than everything
else, as no two systems are identical. And I use the software installed
on the computer to give the new owners an inkling of what they can
actually accomplish with what they've just received, other than surfing
and email.
--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 36.0.4
Thunderbird 31.5
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"
Ken Blake, MVP
2015-05-23 17:10:07 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 23 May 2015 08:58:29 -0600, Ken Springer
Post by Ken Springer
Remember the days of Win 95 and 98, when a computer came with some basic
software installed? Such as MS Works, Media Center, etc.? As most of
these folks can't afford a computer, it's fairly logical they can't
afford commercial software. So I install free stuff, like WPS Office
(formerly Kingsoft), VideoLAN, free AV usually Avira, etc.
Since I'm supplying the monitor, I change the resolution for the best
display the monitor can provide. Adjust icon spacing, etc. as needed,
different wallpaper (just for the fun of it, and it helps me remember
which account I'm in. LOL) Enable Clear Type. I've not looked, but I
suspect the settings of new computers are pretty much what I end up
having when done. I mean, would you really want a computer with 800 X
600 screen resolution. :-)
Not to accuse you of anything, but here's my standard message about
used computers:

If I acquired a used computer, no matter who previously owned it, the
first thing I would do with it would be to reinstall the operating
system cleanly. You have no idea how the computer has been maintained,
what has been installed incorrectly, what is missing, what viruses and
spyware there may be, etc. I wouldn't want to live with somebody
else's mistakes and problems, possibility of kiddy p0rn, etc., and I
wouldn't recommend that anyone else do so either.
pjp
2015-05-23 17:32:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake, MVP
On Sat, 23 May 2015 08:58:29 -0600, Ken Springer
Post by Ken Springer
Remember the days of Win 95 and 98, when a computer came with some basic
software installed? Such as MS Works, Media Center, etc.? As most of
these folks can't afford a computer, it's fairly logical they can't
afford commercial software. So I install free stuff, like WPS Office
(formerly Kingsoft), VideoLAN, free AV usually Avira, etc.
Since I'm supplying the monitor, I change the resolution for the best
display the monitor can provide. Adjust icon spacing, etc. as needed,
different wallpaper (just for the fun of it, and it helps me remember
which account I'm in. LOL) Enable Clear Type. I've not looked, but I
suspect the settings of new computers are pretty much what I end up
having when done. I mean, would you really want a computer with 800 X
600 screen resolution. :-)
Not to accuse you of anything, but here's my standard message about
If I acquired a used computer, no matter who previously owned it, the
first thing I would do with it would be to reinstall the operating
system cleanly. You have no idea how the computer has been maintained,
what has been installed incorrectly, what is missing, what viruses and
spyware there may be, etc. I wouldn't want to live with somebody
else's mistakes and problems, possibility of kiddy p0rn, etc., and I
wouldn't recommend that anyone else do so either.
I usually least check if the thing boots as is first. If so I often look
around a bit; not for personal info but rather for "is there any
software, games, music or movies/videos on here I might be interested in
taking a look at". If so I sometimes make a copy of that if I think it
can be used on another machine.

Then it's format the disk and do a clean install :)

It does surprise me some people do nothing before throwing a pc away. I
have a laptop here that I dragged out of a recycling bin that booted
once home. What amazed me was it was easy to see who had owned it and
although I didn't delve deeply before reformatting and clean install it
did appear buddy had left banking info, passwords and the lot all there.
There appeared to be nothing actually wrong with the laptop, it was just
getting very old (98SE, very small hd, little ram, no usb or ethernet
connectors etc.
Ken Blake, MVP
2015-05-23 18:39:34 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 23 May 2015 14:32:44 -0300, pjp
Post by pjp
Post by Ken Blake, MVP
On Sat, 23 May 2015 08:58:29 -0600, Ken Springer
Post by Ken Springer
Remember the days of Win 95 and 98, when a computer came with some basic
software installed? Such as MS Works, Media Center, etc.? As most of
these folks can't afford a computer, it's fairly logical they can't
afford commercial software. So I install free stuff, like WPS Office
(formerly Kingsoft), VideoLAN, free AV usually Avira, etc.
Since I'm supplying the monitor, I change the resolution for the best
display the monitor can provide. Adjust icon spacing, etc. as needed,
different wallpaper (just for the fun of it, and it helps me remember
which account I'm in. LOL) Enable Clear Type. I've not looked, but I
suspect the settings of new computers are pretty much what I end up
having when done. I mean, would you really want a computer with 800 X
600 screen resolution. :-)
Not to accuse you of anything, but here's my standard message about
If I acquired a used computer, no matter who previously owned it, the
first thing I would do with it would be to reinstall the operating
system cleanly. You have no idea how the computer has been maintained,
what has been installed incorrectly, what is missing, what viruses and
spyware there may be, etc. I wouldn't want to live with somebody
else's mistakes and problems, possibility of kiddy p0rn, etc., and I
wouldn't recommend that anyone else do so either.
I usually least check if the thing boots as is first. If so I often look
around a bit; not for personal info but rather for "is there any
software, games, music or movies/videos on here I might be interested in
taking a look at". If so I sometimes make a copy of that if I think it
can be used on another machine.
OK, looking around isn't a problem if you're careful about what you
copy.
Post by pjp
Then it's format the disk and do a clean install :)
It does surprise me some people do nothing before throwing a pc away. I
have a laptop here that I dragged out of a recycling bin that booted
once home. What amazed me was it was easy to see who had owned it and
although I didn't delve deeply before reformatting and clean install it
did appear buddy had left banking info, passwords and the lot all there.
There appeared to be nothing actually wrong with the laptop, it was just
getting very old (98SE, very small hd, little ram, no usb or ethernet
connectors etc.
If it were me, I would never have that kind of info on a laptop. It's
too easy to lose a laptop or get it stolen.
Ken Springer
2015-05-24 04:54:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake, MVP
On Sat, 23 May 2015 08:58:29 -0600, Ken Springer
Post by Ken Springer
Remember the days of Win 95 and 98, when a computer came with some basic
software installed? Such as MS Works, Media Center, etc.? As most of
these folks can't afford a computer, it's fairly logical they can't
afford commercial software. So I install free stuff, like WPS Office
(formerly Kingsoft), VideoLAN, free AV usually Avira, etc.
Since I'm supplying the monitor, I change the resolution for the best
display the monitor can provide. Adjust icon spacing, etc. as needed,
different wallpaper (just for the fun of it, and it helps me remember
which account I'm in. LOL) Enable Clear Type. I've not looked, but I
suspect the settings of new computers are pretty much what I end up
having when done. I mean, would you really want a computer with 800 X
600 screen resolution. :-)
Not to accuse you of anything, but here's my standard message about
If I acquired a used computer, no matter who previously owned it, the
first thing I would do with it would be to reinstall the operating
system cleanly. You have no idea how the computer has been maintained,
what has been installed incorrectly, what is missing, what viruses and
spyware there may be, etc. I wouldn't want to live with somebody
else's mistakes and problems, possibility of kiddy p0rn, etc., and I
wouldn't recommend that anyone else do so either.
Yea, I do a clean install, each and every time. Sometimes I don't even
know who owned it previously.

What I don't do is look around on the think like pjp does. I could care
less what's on there.

I'd take you all to Vegas and bet that 99& of the new owners wouldn't
have a clue how to reinstall the OS
--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 36.0.4
Thunderbird 31.5
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"
Ken Blake, MVP
2015-05-24 13:56:26 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 23 May 2015 22:54:57 -0600, Ken Springer
Post by Ken Springer
Post by Ken Blake, MVP
On Sat, 23 May 2015 08:58:29 -0600, Ken Springer
Post by Ken Springer
Remember the days of Win 95 and 98, when a computer came with some basic
software installed? Such as MS Works, Media Center, etc.? As most of
these folks can't afford a computer, it's fairly logical they can't
afford commercial software. So I install free stuff, like WPS Office
(formerly Kingsoft), VideoLAN, free AV usually Avira, etc.
Since I'm supplying the monitor, I change the resolution for the best
display the monitor can provide. Adjust icon spacing, etc. as needed,
different wallpaper (just for the fun of it, and it helps me remember
which account I'm in. LOL) Enable Clear Type. I've not looked, but I
suspect the settings of new computers are pretty much what I end up
having when done. I mean, would you really want a computer with 800 X
600 screen resolution. :-)
Not to accuse you of anything, but here's my standard message about
If I acquired a used computer, no matter who previously owned it, the
first thing I would do with it would be to reinstall the operating
system cleanly. You have no idea how the computer has been maintained,
what has been installed incorrectly, what is missing, what viruses and
spyware there may be, etc. I wouldn't want to live with somebody
else's mistakes and problems, possibility of kiddy p0rn, etc., and I
wouldn't recommend that anyone else do so either.
Yea, I do a clean install, each and every time.
In that case, I misunderstood you. Sorry.
Post by Ken Springer
Sometimes I don't even
know who owned it previously.
I'd take you all to Vegas and bet that 99& of the new owners wouldn't
have a clue how to reinstall the OS
I won't bet with you. The number might be a little less than 99%, but
I agree that it's very high. But as far as I'm concerned, it doesn't
matter; you should do it with a used computer whether you know how or
not: learn how or get a friend to help you.
Ken Springer
2015-05-24 15:33:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake, MVP
On Sat, 23 May 2015 22:54:57 -0600, Ken Springer
Post by Ken Springer
Post by Ken Blake, MVP
On Sat, 23 May 2015 08:58:29 -0600, Ken Springer
Post by Ken Springer
Remember the days of Win 95 and 98, when a computer came with some basic
software installed? Such as MS Works, Media Center, etc.? As most of
these folks can't afford a computer, it's fairly logical they can't
afford commercial software. So I install free stuff, like WPS Office
(formerly Kingsoft), VideoLAN, free AV usually Avira, etc.
Since I'm supplying the monitor, I change the resolution for the best
display the monitor can provide. Adjust icon spacing, etc. as needed,
different wallpaper (just for the fun of it, and it helps me remember
which account I'm in. LOL) Enable Clear Type. I've not looked, but I
suspect the settings of new computers are pretty much what I end up
having when done. I mean, would you really want a computer with 800 X
600 screen resolution. :-)
Not to accuse you of anything, but here's my standard message about
If I acquired a used computer, no matter who previously owned it, the
first thing I would do with it would be to reinstall the operating
system cleanly. You have no idea how the computer has been maintained,
what has been installed incorrectly, what is missing, what viruses and
spyware there may be, etc. I wouldn't want to live with somebody
else's mistakes and problems, possibility of kiddy p0rn, etc., and I
wouldn't recommend that anyone else do so either.
Yea, I do a clean install, each and every time.
In that case, I misunderstood you. Sorry.
No apology necessary, Ken.
Post by Ken Blake, MVP
Post by Ken Springer
Sometimes I don't even
know who owned it previously.
I'd take you all to Vegas and bet that 99& of the new owners wouldn't
have a clue how to reinstall the OS
I won't bet with you. The number might be a little less than 99%, but
I agree that it's very high. But as far as I'm concerned, it doesn't
matter; you should do it with a used computer whether you know how or
not: learn how or get a friend to help you.
I agree totally. I've reinstalled my OS often over the years, starting
with my Atari ST1040 computer.

But it's so darned hard to get people to learn anything about the OS and
how to even use it, much less reinstall it.

An example is a good friend of mine. She's constantly complaining how
slow her computer is. She's spent hours looking for fixes on the web.
But will she take the time to reinstall and start from scratch? Nope.
Will she let me do it? Nope. I just let her complaining go in one ear
and out the other, these days.
--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 36.0.4
Thunderbird 31.5
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"
Slimer
2015-05-24 18:06:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Springer
Post by Ken Blake, MVP
On Sat, 23 May 2015 22:54:57 -0600, Ken Springer
Post by Ken Springer
Post by Ken Blake, MVP
On Sat, 23 May 2015 08:58:29 -0600, Ken Springer
Post by Ken Springer
Remember the days of Win 95 and 98, when a computer came with some basic
software installed? Such as MS Works, Media Center, etc.? As most of
these folks can't afford a computer, it's fairly logical they can't
afford commercial software. So I install free stuff, like WPS Office
(formerly Kingsoft), VideoLAN, free AV usually Avira, etc.
Since I'm supplying the monitor, I change the resolution for the best
display the monitor can provide. Adjust icon spacing, etc. as needed,
different wallpaper (just for the fun of it, and it helps me remember
which account I'm in. LOL) Enable Clear Type. I've not looked, but I
suspect the settings of new computers are pretty much what I end up
having when done. I mean, would you really want a computer with 800 X
600 screen resolution. :-)
Not to accuse you of anything, but here's my standard message about
If I acquired a used computer, no matter who previously owned it, the
first thing I would do with it would be to reinstall the operating
system cleanly. You have no idea how the computer has been maintained,
what has been installed incorrectly, what is missing, what viruses and
spyware there may be, etc. I wouldn't want to live with somebody
else's mistakes and problems, possibility of kiddy p0rn, etc., and I
wouldn't recommend that anyone else do so either.
Yea, I do a clean install, each and every time.
In that case, I misunderstood you. Sorry.
No apology necessary, Ken.
Post by Ken Blake, MVP
Post by Ken Springer
Sometimes I don't even
know who owned it previously.
I'd take you all to Vegas and bet that 99& of the new owners wouldn't
have a clue how to reinstall the OS
I won't bet with you. The number might be a little less than 99%, but
I agree that it's very high. But as far as I'm concerned, it doesn't
matter; you should do it with a used computer whether you know how or
not: learn how or get a friend to help you.
I agree totally. I've reinstalled my OS often over the years, starting
with my Atari ST1040 computer.
But it's so darned hard to get people to learn anything about the OS and
how to even use it, much less reinstall it.
An example is a good friend of mine. She's constantly complaining how
slow her computer is. She's spent hours looking for fixes on the web.
But will she take the time to reinstall and start from scratch? Nope.
Will she let me do it? Nope. I just let her complaining go in one ear
and out the other, these days.
I had no idea that it was even possible to re-install an Atari 1040ST's
operating system. As far as I knew, the operating system was in ROM and
therefore couldn't be affected by viruses. An upgrade would also require
a user to replace the chip on the motherboard, no?
--
Slimer
Encrypt.

- "NTFS is just slightly faster than apples HFS. And that is the slowest
FS of all. EXT 4 is several times faster than NTFS, and *that* is the
reason you dimbulbs now troll against EXT4."
- "Like NTFS, which is at best at beta stage right now?"

(Peter "the Klöwn" Köhlmann lying shamelessly about NTFS to desperately
defend the fact that ext4 has been shown to corrupt data in Linux kernel
4.0.x)
Ken Springer
2015-05-24 18:20:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Slimer
Post by Ken Springer
Post by Ken Blake, MVP
On Sat, 23 May 2015 22:54:57 -0600, Ken Springer
Post by Ken Springer
Post by Ken Blake, MVP
On Sat, 23 May 2015 08:58:29 -0600, Ken Springer
Post by Ken Springer
Remember the days of Win 95 and 98, when a computer came with some basic
software installed? Such as MS Works, Media Center, etc.? As most of
these folks can't afford a computer, it's fairly logical they can't
afford commercial software. So I install free stuff, like WPS Office
(formerly Kingsoft), VideoLAN, free AV usually Avira, etc.
Since I'm supplying the monitor, I change the resolution for the best
display the monitor can provide. Adjust icon spacing, etc. as needed,
different wallpaper (just for the fun of it, and it helps me remember
which account I'm in. LOL) Enable Clear Type. I've not looked, but I
suspect the settings of new computers are pretty much what I end up
having when done. I mean, would you really want a computer with 800 X
600 screen resolution. :-)
Not to accuse you of anything, but here's my standard message about
If I acquired a used computer, no matter who previously owned it, the
first thing I would do with it would be to reinstall the operating
system cleanly. You have no idea how the computer has been maintained,
what has been installed incorrectly, what is missing, what viruses and
spyware there may be, etc. I wouldn't want to live with somebody
else's mistakes and problems, possibility of kiddy p0rn, etc., and I
wouldn't recommend that anyone else do so either.
Yea, I do a clean install, each and every time.
In that case, I misunderstood you. Sorry.
No apology necessary, Ken.
Post by Ken Blake, MVP
Post by Ken Springer
Sometimes I don't even
know who owned it previously.
I'd take you all to Vegas and bet that 99& of the new owners wouldn't
have a clue how to reinstall the OS
I won't bet with you. The number might be a little less than 99%, but
I agree that it's very high. But as far as I'm concerned, it doesn't
matter; you should do it with a used computer whether you know how or
not: learn how or get a friend to help you.
I agree totally. I've reinstalled my OS often over the years, starting
with my Atari ST1040 computer.
But it's so darned hard to get people to learn anything about the OS and
how to even use it, much less reinstall it.
An example is a good friend of mine. She's constantly complaining how
slow her computer is. She's spent hours looking for fixes on the web.
But will she take the time to reinstall and start from scratch? Nope.
Will she let me do it? Nope. I just let her complaining go in one ear
and out the other, these days.
I had no idea that it was even possible to re-install an Atari 1040ST's
operating system. As far as I knew, the operating system was in ROM and
therefore couldn't be affected by viruses. An upgrade would also require
a user to replace the chip on the motherboard, no?
You're correct, but technically you kind of reinstalled it every time
you turned in on. <snicker, snicker>

OK, that was in fun.

On the serious side, you reinstalled the OS, in this case an upgrade,
buy removing the ROM and installing a new one. Which I did. But
thinking back, that was on my Mega 4, not the 1040.
--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 36.0.4
Thunderbird 31.5
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"
Paul
2015-05-24 18:47:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Slimer
Post by Ken Springer
Post by Ken Blake, MVP
On Sat, 23 May 2015 22:54:57 -0600, Ken Springer
Post by Ken Springer
Post by Ken Blake, MVP
On Sat, 23 May 2015 08:58:29 -0600, Ken Springer
Post by Ken Springer
Remember the days of Win 95 and 98, when a computer came with some basic
software installed? Such as MS Works, Media Center, etc.? As most of
these folks can't afford a computer, it's fairly logical they can't
afford commercial software. So I install free stuff, like WPS
Office
(formerly Kingsoft), VideoLAN, free AV usually Avira, etc.
Since I'm supplying the monitor, I change the resolution for the best
display the monitor can provide. Adjust icon spacing, etc. as needed,
different wallpaper (just for the fun of it, and it helps me remember
which account I'm in. LOL) Enable Clear Type. I've not looked, but I
suspect the settings of new computers are pretty much what I end up
having when done. I mean, would you really want a computer with 800 X
600 screen resolution. :-)
Not to accuse you of anything, but here's my standard message about
If I acquired a used computer, no matter who previously owned it, the
first thing I would do with it would be to reinstall the operating
system cleanly. You have no idea how the computer has been maintained,
what has been installed incorrectly, what is missing, what viruses and
spyware there may be, etc. I wouldn't want to live with somebody
else's mistakes and problems, possibility of kiddy p0rn, etc., and I
wouldn't recommend that anyone else do so either.
Yea, I do a clean install, each and every time.
In that case, I misunderstood you. Sorry.
No apology necessary, Ken.
Post by Ken Blake, MVP
Post by Ken Springer
Sometimes I don't even
know who owned it previously.
I'd take you all to Vegas and bet that 99& of the new owners wouldn't
have a clue how to reinstall the OS
I won't bet with you. The number might be a little less than 99%, but
I agree that it's very high. But as far as I'm concerned, it doesn't
matter; you should do it with a used computer whether you know how or
not: learn how or get a friend to help you.
I agree totally. I've reinstalled my OS often over the years, starting
with my Atari ST1040 computer.
But it's so darned hard to get people to learn anything about the OS and
how to even use it, much less reinstall it.
An example is a good friend of mine. She's constantly complaining how
slow her computer is. She's spent hours looking for fixes on the web.
But will she take the time to reinstall and start from scratch? Nope.
Will she let me do it? Nope. I just let her complaining go in one ear
and out the other, these days.
I had no idea that it was even possible to re-install an Atari 1040ST's
operating system. As far as I knew, the operating system was in ROM and
therefore couldn't be affected by viruses. An upgrade would also require
a user to replace the chip on the motherboard, no?
This is back when ROMs were expensive, but disk drives were
more expensive.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari_TOS

The ROMs in that case, would be considered "wastefully large"
when compared to what was used on other computers.

Paul
Ken Springer
2015-05-25 15:48:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul
Post by Slimer
Post by Ken Springer
Post by Ken Blake, MVP
On Sat, 23 May 2015 22:54:57 -0600, Ken Springer
Post by Ken Springer
Post by Ken Blake, MVP
On Sat, 23 May 2015 08:58:29 -0600, Ken Springer
Post by Ken Springer
Remember the days of Win 95 and 98, when a computer came with some basic
software installed? Such as MS Works, Media Center, etc.? As most of
these folks can't afford a computer, it's fairly logical they can't
afford commercial software. So I install free stuff, like WPS
Office
(formerly Kingsoft), VideoLAN, free AV usually Avira, etc.
Since I'm supplying the monitor, I change the resolution for the best
display the monitor can provide. Adjust icon spacing, etc. as needed,
different wallpaper (just for the fun of it, and it helps me remember
which account I'm in. LOL) Enable Clear Type. I've not looked, but I
suspect the settings of new computers are pretty much what I end up
having when done. I mean, would you really want a computer with 800 X
600 screen resolution. :-)
Not to accuse you of anything, but here's my standard message about
If I acquired a used computer, no matter who previously owned it, the
first thing I would do with it would be to reinstall the operating
system cleanly. You have no idea how the computer has been maintained,
what has been installed incorrectly, what is missing, what viruses and
spyware there may be, etc. I wouldn't want to live with somebody
else's mistakes and problems, possibility of kiddy p0rn, etc., and I
wouldn't recommend that anyone else do so either.
Yea, I do a clean install, each and every time.
In that case, I misunderstood you. Sorry.
No apology necessary, Ken.
Post by Ken Blake, MVP
Post by Ken Springer
Sometimes I don't even
know who owned it previously.
I'd take you all to Vegas and bet that 99& of the new owners wouldn't
have a clue how to reinstall the OS
I won't bet with you. The number might be a little less than 99%, but
I agree that it's very high. But as far as I'm concerned, it doesn't
matter; you should do it with a used computer whether you know how or
not: learn how or get a friend to help you.
I agree totally. I've reinstalled my OS often over the years, starting
with my Atari ST1040 computer.
But it's so darned hard to get people to learn anything about the OS and
how to even use it, much less reinstall it.
An example is a good friend of mine. She's constantly complaining how
slow her computer is. She's spent hours looking for fixes on the web.
But will she take the time to reinstall and start from scratch? Nope.
Will she let me do it? Nope. I just let her complaining go in one ear
and out the other, these days.
I had no idea that it was even possible to re-install an Atari 1040ST's
operating system. As far as I knew, the operating system was in ROM and
therefore couldn't be affected by viruses. An upgrade would also require
a user to replace the chip on the motherboard, no?
This is back when ROMs were expensive, but disk drives were
more expensive.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari_TOS
The ROMs in that case, would be considered "wastefully large"
when compared to what was used on other computers.
Probably so, but just try to install a virus in the OS. <G>
--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 36.0.4
Thunderbird 31.5
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"
Char Jackson
2015-05-24 19:43:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Springer
Yea, I do a clean install, each and every time. Sometimes I don't even
know who owned it previously.
What I don't do is look around on the think like pjp does. I could care
less what's on there.
I'd take you all to Vegas and bet that 99& of the new owners wouldn't
have a clue how to reinstall the OS
You had me at "I'd take you all to Vegas...". When is this, again? I need to
clear my schedule.
Ken Springer
2015-05-25 06:17:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Char Jackson
Post by Ken Springer
Yea, I do a clean install, each and every time. Sometimes I don't even
know who owned it previously.
What I don't do is look around on the think like pjp does. I could care
less what's on there.
I'd take you all to Vegas and bet that 99& of the new owners wouldn't
have a clue how to reinstall the OS
You had me at "I'd take you all to Vegas...". When is this, again? I need to
clear my schedule.
LOL! About the time I win the lottery.
--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 36.0.4
Thunderbird 31.5
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"
Char Jackson
2015-05-24 19:42:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Springer
I set up basic accounts because of the malware issues these days, but a
tutorial of why it's done and how to properly use them is supplied with
the computer.
The most radical thing I do is partition the hard drive, and move the
data storage to the new partition. Relocating those personal data files
LOL And the new owners get instructions on never putting files on
C:\. LOL
While I see your reasons for doing that, it's non-standard and is probably
going to confuse a few folks. Personally, I've always just advised people
with whom I come into contact to make backups on a regular basis. With a
good backup strategy, it doesn't matter as much where things are stored.

Case in point, one lady *asked me* to create a second partition and a folder
structure in it, then move her personal documents there. I got a frantic
call about week later advising me that all of her precious documents were
gone. Turns out, she had simply forgotten that she'd asked me to move them.
The part I felt bad about was when she told me she had been searching for at
least five days and had finally called me because she thought that I had
accidentally deleted them.
Ken Blake, MVP
2015-05-24 19:48:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Char Jackson
Post by Ken Springer
I set up basic accounts because of the malware issues these days, but a
tutorial of why it's done and how to properly use them is supplied with
the computer.
The most radical thing I do is partition the hard drive, and move the
data storage to the new partition. Relocating those personal data files
LOL And the new owners get instructions on never putting files on
C:\. LOL
While I see your reasons for doing that, it's non-standard and is probably
going to confuse a few folks. Personally, I've always just advised people
with whom I come into contact to make backups on a regular basis. With a
good backup strategy, it doesn't matter as much where things are stored.
I agree completely.
Ken Springer
2015-05-25 16:12:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Char Jackson
Post by Ken Springer
I set up basic accounts because of the malware issues these days, but a
tutorial of why it's done and how to properly use them is supplied with
the computer.
The most radical thing I do is partition the hard drive, and move the
data storage to the new partition. Relocating those personal data files
LOL And the new owners get instructions on never putting files on
C:\. LOL
While I see your reasons for doing that, it's non-standard and is probably
going to confuse a few folks. Personally, I've always just advised people
with whom I come into contact to make backups on a regular basis. With a
good backup strategy, it doesn't matter as much where things are stored.
Guess that's a situation of how you define non-standard. <G> To me,
formatting/partitioning another Windows partition is not non-standard.
It's not the default, but not non-standard. Non-standard would be
creating Mac or Linux partitions on the drive.

I have to work with the assumption the new owners will not have the
resources to purchase an external drive for backups. Well, I don't
*have* to, but I do. And many times, the hard drive is too small to
have the images on the internal drive. In the case of the Vista machine
I'm working with now, the optical drive will only burn CD's.

I also work with the assumption they have no clue what a backup is.

After weighing in all the factors, this leaves me with the choice of
partitions, or asking them to do something they possibly can't afford to
do, even if they have the knowledge. I think partitioning and moving
their docs is the safest approach under these conditions.

I do explain what I've done, and why, in the documentation, and I
encourage them to do backups, *if* they can afford it. It's always
possible someone may give them an external drive, but I don't know that.
Post by Char Jackson
Case in point, one lady *asked me* to create a second partition and a folder
structure in it, then move her personal documents there. I got a frantic
call about week later advising me that all of her precious documents were
gone. Turns out, she had simply forgotten that she'd asked me to move them.
The part I felt bad about was when she told me she had been searching for at
least five days and had finally called me because she thought that I had
accidentally deleted them.
As long as you're in the "fix it" business of some kind, you'll always
have the customer who forgot they asked for something to be done, or
forgot to ask for something to be done. I would have felt bad too, and
likely would have tried to steer the conversation to make her feel
better, such as "Yea, I've forgotten these things too that I've done for
myself", so she knows she's not the only one to do it.

But the bottom line is, you did what she asked. You are not responsible
for her memory.
--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 36.0.4
Thunderbird 31.5
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"
Char Jackson
2015-05-26 05:33:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Springer
Post by Char Jackson
Post by Ken Springer
I set up basic accounts because of the malware issues these days, but a
tutorial of why it's done and how to properly use them is supplied with
the computer.
The most radical thing I do is partition the hard drive, and move the
data storage to the new partition. Relocating those personal data files
LOL And the new owners get instructions on never putting files on
C:\. LOL
While I see your reasons for doing that, it's non-standard and is probably
going to confuse a few folks. Personally, I've always just advised people
with whom I come into contact to make backups on a regular basis. With a
good backup strategy, it doesn't matter as much where things are stored.
Guess that's a situation of how you define non-standard. <G> To me,
formatting/partitioning another Windows partition is not non-standard.
It's not the default, but not non-standard. Non-standard would be
creating Mac or Linux partitions on the drive.
OK, let's call it non-default, if you like that term better than
non-standard. It doesn't change anything. Bless you for doing the task that
you do, but IMHO I don't think 'partitioning and relocating folders' is a
good idea.

Personally, I don't even relocate system folders on my own systems, so I
would not consider doing it to someone else's system. I don't actively use
those folders, preferring to use my own hierarchy, but I leave them right
where Windows puts them. That's standard/default Windows behavior.
Post by Ken Springer
I have to work with the assumption the new owners will not have the
resources to purchase an external drive for backups. Well, I don't
*have* to, but I do. And many times, the hard drive is too small to
have the images on the internal drive. In the case of the Vista machine
I'm working with now, the optical drive will only burn CD's.
I also work with the assumption they have no clue what a backup is.
After weighing in all the factors, this leaves me with the choice of
partitions, or asking them to do something they possibly can't afford to
do, even if they have the knowledge. I think partitioning and moving
their docs is the safest approach under these conditions.
I do explain what I've done, and why, in the documentation, and I
encourage them to do backups, *if* they can afford it. It's always
possible someone may give them an external drive, but I don't know that.
I didn't fully understand all of that. Saving backup images on another
partition on the same drive is rarely a good idea, (drive lost means all
partitions lost), so if the premise starts with "drive too small" then I
don't see what's being gained by partitioning and relocating those folders
in another partition on the same drive.

It's up to you, though. Do what you feel is best. It doesn't have to make
sense to me. :-)
Ken Springer
2015-05-26 06:26:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Char Jackson
Post by Ken Springer
Post by Char Jackson
Post by Ken Springer
I set up basic accounts because of the malware issues these days, but a
tutorial of why it's done and how to properly use them is supplied with
the computer.
The most radical thing I do is partition the hard drive, and move the
data storage to the new partition. Relocating those personal data files
LOL And the new owners get instructions on never putting files on
C:\. LOL
While I see your reasons for doing that, it's non-standard and is probably
going to confuse a few folks. Personally, I've always just advised people
with whom I come into contact to make backups on a regular basis. With a
good backup strategy, it doesn't matter as much where things are stored.
Guess that's a situation of how you define non-standard. <G> To me,
formatting/partitioning another Windows partition is not non-standard.
It's not the default, but not non-standard. Non-standard would be
creating Mac or Linux partitions on the drive.
OK, let's call it non-default, if you like that term better than
non-standard. It doesn't change anything. Bless you for doing the task that
you do, but IMHO I don't think 'partitioning and relocating folders' is a
good idea.
Personally, I don't even relocate system folders on my own systems, so I
would not consider doing it to someone else's system. I don't actively use
those folders, preferring to use my own hierarchy, but I leave them right
where Windows puts them. That's standard/default Windows behavior.
I've never used the folders either, but while working on the Vista
machine, it occurred to me I might save myself some steps in accessing a
particular folder if I can bend the OS to my will. LOL Much like I
have with the Libraries.

FWIW, MS has acknowledged partitioning and relocating the folders can be
a good thing.
Post by Char Jackson
Post by Ken Springer
I have to work with the assumption the new owners will not have the
resources to purchase an external drive for backups. Well, I don't
*have* to, but I do. And many times, the hard drive is too small to
have the images on the internal drive. In the case of the Vista machine
I'm working with now, the optical drive will only burn CD's.
I also work with the assumption they have no clue what a backup is.
After weighing in all the factors, this leaves me with the choice of
partitions, or asking them to do something they possibly can't afford to
do, even if they have the knowledge. I think partitioning and moving
their docs is the safest approach under these conditions.
I do explain what I've done, and why, in the documentation, and I
encourage them to do backups, *if* they can afford it. It's always
possible someone may give them an external drive, but I don't know that.
I didn't fully understand all of that. Saving backup images on another
partition on the same drive is rarely a good idea, (drive lost means all
partitions lost), so if the premise starts with "drive too small" then I
don't see what's being gained by partitioning and relocating those folders
in another partition on the same drive.
Sorry for the misdirection on the backup images. I never put them on
the same physical hard drive, nor do I recommend it.
Post by Char Jackson
It's up to you, though. Do what you feel is best. It doesn't have to make
sense to me. :-)
--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 36.0.4
Thunderbird 31.5
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"
Ken Blake, MVP
2015-05-26 14:42:32 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 26 May 2015 00:26:27 -0600, Ken Springer
Post by Ken Springer
FWIW, MS has acknowledged partitioning and relocating the folders can be
a good thing.
I'm not Microsoft, but here's my view on having multiple partitions
(this is a article I wrote several years ago, that was on a web-zine
that not longer exists):

Planning Your Partitions

*The Question*

How many partitions should I have on my hard drive, what should I use
each one for, and how big should each of them be?

ItÂ’s a common question, but unfortunately one that doesnÂ’t have a
single simple answer, right for everyone. Many people will answer with
the way they do it, but their answer isnÂ’t necessarily best for the
person asking (in many cases it isnÂ’t even right for the person
responding).

*The Terminology*

First, let’s get the terminology right. Some people ask “should I
partition my drive?” That’s the wrong question, because the
terminology is a little strange. Some people think that the verb
“partition” means to divide the drive into two or more partitions.
ThatÂ’s not correct: to partition a drive is to create one or more
partitions on it. You have to have at least one partition on it to use
it. Those people who think they have an unpartitioned drive actually
have a drive with only a single partition on it, and itÂ’s normally
called C:. The choice you have is whether to have more than one
partition, not whether to partition at all.

*Some History*

Back before Windows 95 OEM Service Release 2 (also known as Windows
95B) was released in 1996, all MS-DOS and Windows hard drives were set
up using the FAT16 file system (except for very tiny ones using
FAT12). Because only 16 bits were used for addressing, FAT16 has a
maximum partition size of 2Gb.

Hard drives larger than 2GB were rare in those days, but if you had
one, you had to have multiple partitions to use all the available
space. But even if your drive was no bigger than 2GB, FAT16 created
another severe problem for many people–the size of the cluster was
bigger if you had a bigger partition. Cluster sizes went from 512
bytes for a partition no bigger than32Mb all the way up to 32Kb for a
partition of 1Gb or greater.

The larger the cluster size, the more space is wasted on a hard drive.
ThatÂ’s because space for all files is allocated in whole clusters
only. If you have 32Kb clusters, a 1-byte files takes 32Kb, a file one
byte larger than 32Kb takes 64Kb, and so on. On the average, each file
wastes about half of its last cluster.

So large partitions create a lot of waste (called “slack”). With a 2GB
FAT16 drive in a single cluster, if you have 10,000 files, each
wasting half of a 32Kb cluster, you waste about 160Mb to slack. ThatÂ’s
a substantial portion of a drive that probably cost over $400 back in
1996–around $32 worth.

So what did people do? They partitioned their 2GB drive into two,
three, or more logical drives. Each of those logical drives was
smaller than the real physical drive, had smaller clusters, and
therefore less waste. If, for example, they could keep all partitions
under 512Mb, cluster size was only 8Kb, and the waste was reduced to a
quarter of what it would otherwise be.

People partitioned for other reasons too, but back in the days of
FAT16, this was the main reason for doing so.

*The Present*

Three things have changed dramatically since 1996:

1. The FAT32 and NTFS file systems have come along, permitting larger
partitions with smaller clusters, and therefore much less waste. In
fact, with NTFS, cluster sizes are 4K, regardless of partition size.

2. Hard drives have become much bigger, often over 1Tb (1000Gb) in
size.

3. Hard drives have become much cheaper. For example, a 500Gb drive
can be bought today for around $50. ThatÂ’s 250 times the size of that
typical 2Gb 1996 drive, at about an eighth of the price.

What those things mean together is that the old rationale of having
multiple partitions to avoid substantial waste of disk space is gone.
The amount of waste is much less than it used to be and the cost of
that waste is much less. For all practical purposes, almost nobody
should be concerned about slack anymore, and it should no longer be
considered when planning your partition structure.

*What Partitions are Used for Today*

There is a wide variety of different ways people set up multiple
partitions these days. Some of these uses are reasonable, some are
questionable, some are outright bad. IÂ’ll discuss a number of common
partition types in what follows:

1. A partition for just Windows

Most people who create such a partition do so because they believe
that if they ever have to reinstall Windows cleanly, at least they
wonÂ’t lose their data and wonÂ’t have to reinstall their applications,
because both are safe on other partitions.

In fact the first of those thoughts is a false comfort, and the second
is downright wrong. See the discussion of partition types 2 and 4
below to find out why.

Also note that as time passes, many people find that their Windows
partition that started out to be the right size turns out to be too
small. For example, if you have such a Windows partition, and later
upgrade to a newer version of Windows, you may find that your Windows
partition is too small.

2. A partition for installed programs

This normally goes hand-in-hand with partition type 1, a partition for
just Windows. The thought that if you reinstall Windows, your
installed application programs are safe if they are in a separate
partitions is simply wrong. ThatÂ’s because all installed programs
(except for an occasional trivial one) have pointers to them within
Windows, in the registry and elsewhere, as well as associated files
buried within the Windows folder. So if Windows goes, the pointers and
files go with it. Since programs have to be reinstalled if Windows
does, this rationale for a separate partition for programs doesn't
work. In fact, there is hardly ever a good reason for separating
Windows from application software in separate partitions.

3. A partition for the swap file.

Some people erroneously think that having the page file on a separate
partition will improve performance. That is also false; it doesnÂ’t
help, and often hurts, performance, because it increases head movement
to get back and forth from the page file to the other frequently-used
data on the drive. For best performance, the page file should normally
be on the most-used partition of the least-used physical drive. For
almost everyone with a single physical drive, thatÂ’s the same drive
Windows is on, C:.

4. A partition for backup of other partitions.

Some people make a separate partition to store backups of their other
partition(s). People who rely on such a "backup" are just kidding
themselves. It's only very slightly better than no backup at all,
because it leaves you susceptible to simultaneous loss of the original
and backup to many of the most common dangers: head crashes and other
kinds of drive failure, severe power glitches, nearby lightning
strikes, virus attacks, even theft of the computer. In my view,
secure backup needs to be on removable media, and not kept in the
computer.

5. A partition for data files

Above, when I discussed separating Windows on a partition of its own,
I pointed out that separating data from Windows is a false comfort if
itÂ’s done with the thought that the data will be safe if Windows ever
has to be reinstalled. The reason I call it a false comfort is because
I fear that many people will rely on that separation, think that their
data is safe there, and therefore do not take appropriate steps to
back it up. In truth the data is not safe there. Having to reinstall
Windows is only one of the dangers to someoneÂ’s hard drive, and not
even the most likely one. This kind of “safeguard” falls into the same
category as a partition for backup of other partitions; it leaves you
susceptible to simultaneous loss of the original and backup to many of
the most common dangers that affect the entire physical drive, not
just the particular partition. Safety comes from a strong backup
regimen, not from how you partition.

However for some people it can be a good idea to separate Windows and
programs on the one hand from data on the other, putting each of the
two types into separate partitions. I think that most peopleÂ’s
partitioning scheme should be based on their backup scheme, and backup
schemes generally fall into two types: imaging the entire hard drive
or backup of data only. If you backup data only, that backup is
usually facilitated by having a separate partition with data only;
that permits backing up just that partition easily, without having to
collect bits and pieces from here and there. On the other hand, for
those who backup by creating an image of the entire drive, there is
usually little, if any, benefit to separating data in a partition of
its own.

By the way, in all fairness, I should point out that there are many
well-respected people who recommend a separate partition for Windows,
regardless of your backup scheme. Their arguments havenÂ’t convinced
me, but there are clearly two different views here.

6. A partition for picture files

Some people like to treat pictures and videos as something separate
from other data files, and create a separate partition for them. To my
mind, a picture is simply another kind of data, and there is no
advantage in doing this.

7. A partition for music files.

The comments above pertaining to picture files apply equally to music
files. They are just another kind of data and should be treated the
same way as other data.

8. A partition for a second operating system to dual-boot to.

For those who run multiple operating systems (Windows Vista, Windows
XP, Windows 98, Linux, etc.), a separate partition for each operating
system is essential. The issues here are beyond the scope of this
article, but itÂ’s sufficient to note that I have no objection at all
to such partitions

*Performance*

Some people have multiple partitions because they believe that it
somehow improves performance. ThatÂ’s not correct. The effect is
probably small on modern computers with modern hard drives, but if
anything, the opposite is true: more partitions mean poorer
performance. ThatÂ’s because normally no partition is full and there
are therefore gaps between them. It takes time for the driveÂ’s
read/write heads to traverse those gaps. The closer together files
are, the faster access to them will be.

*Organization*

I think many people overpartition because they use partitions as an
organizational structure. They have a strong sense of order and want
to separate apples from oranges on their drives.

Yes, separating different kinds of files on partitions is an
organizational technique, but so is separating different kinds of
files in folders. The difference is that partitions are static and
fixed in size, while folders are dynamic, changing size automatically
as necessary to meet your changing needs. That generally makes folders
a much better way to organize, in my view.

True, partitions can be resized when necessary, but except with recent
versions of Windows, doing so requires third-party software (and the
ability to do it in Windows is primitive, compared to the third-party
solutions). Such third-party software normally costs money, and, no
matter how good and how stable it is, affects the entire drive,
entailing a risk of losing everything. Plan your partitions well in
the first place, and no repartitioning should be necessary. The need
to repartition usually comes about as a result of overpartitioning in
the first place.

What frequently happens when people organize with partitions instead
of folders is that they miscalculate how much room they need on each
such partition, and then when they run out of room on the partition
where a file logically belongs, while still having lots of space left
on the other, they simply store the file in the "wrong" partition.
Paradoxically, therefore, that kind of partition structure results in
less organization rather than more.

*So How Should I Partition My Drive*

If you've read what came before, my conclusions won't come as a
surprise:

1. if your backup scheme is to image the entire drive, have just a
single partition (usually C:);

2. if you just backup data, have two partitions–one for Windows and
installed application programs (usually C:), the other for data
(usually D:).

Except for those running multiple operating systems, there is seldom
any benefit to having more than two partitions.
Ken Springer
2015-05-26 17:00:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake, MVP
On Tue, 26 May 2015 00:26:27 -0600, Ken Springer
Post by Ken Springer
FWIW, MS has acknowledged partitioning and relocating the folders can be
a good thing.
<snip>

We agree on everything I just snipped. I want to shorten this reply, as
I agree with your perspective 99+% of the time. <G>
Post by Ken Blake, MVP
1. A partition for just Windows
Most people who create such a partition do so because they believe
that if they ever have to reinstall Windows cleanly, at least they
won’t lose their data and won’t have to reinstall their applications,
because both are safe on other partitions.
In fact the first of those thoughts is a false comfort, and the second
is downright wrong. See the discussion of partition types 2 and 4
below to find out why.
Also note that as time passes, many people find that their Windows
partition that started out to be the right size turns out to be too
small. For example, if you have such a Windows partition, and later
upgrade to a newer version of Windows, you may find that your Windows
partition is too small.
Windows was the 3rd OS I was exposed to, and I discovered this too as I
learned how Windows worked. But not so much from updating to a newer
version of Windows, but because of the existing installation kept
getting larger from MS updates, and program installation.

On these old systems I fix up now and again, I try to leave 25% free
space after everything is installed, including all updates and the
supplied software. The impediment for the 25% is usually the small hard
drive.

<snip>

Agreed on the snipped text.
Post by Ken Blake, MVP
4. A partition for backup of other partitions.
Some people make a separate partition to store backups of their other
partition(s). People who rely on such a "backup" are just kidding
themselves. It's only very slightly better than no backup at all,
because it leaves you susceptible to simultaneous loss of the original
and backup to many of the most common dangers: head crashes and other
kinds of drive failure, severe power glitches, nearby lightning
strikes, virus attacks, even theft of the computer. In my view,
secure backup needs to be on removable media, and not kept in the
computer.
This I've never done. Always on a separate physical drive. The minor
difference is, on my Win7/8 machine, I only have one separate drive for
the backups, but it has 2 partitions, one for the Win 7 install, one for
the Win 8 install. It's turning into a special use machine, so there
will not be a lot of data on it.
Post by Ken Blake, MVP
5. A partition for data files
<snip>

Agreed on snipped text.
Post by Ken Blake, MVP
However for some people it can be a good idea to separate Windows and
programs on the one hand from data on the other, putting each of the
two types into separate partitions. I think that most people’s
partitioning scheme should be based on their backup scheme, and backup
schemes generally fall into two types: imaging the entire hard drive
or backup of data only. If you backup data only, that backup is
usually facilitated by having a separate partition with data only;
that permits backing up just that partition easily, without having to
collect bits and pieces from here and there. On the other hand, for
those who backup by creating an image of the entire drive, there is
usually little, if any, benefit to separating data in a partition of
its own.
What about user ignorance? <G> More on this later.
Post by Ken Blake, MVP
By the way, in all fairness, I should point out that there are many
well-respected people who recommend a separate partition for Windows,
regardless of your backup scheme. Their arguments haven’t convinced
me, but there are clearly two different views here.
Ignorance can come into play here also.
Post by Ken Blake, MVP
6. A partition for picture files
Some people like to treat pictures and videos as something separate
from other data files, and create a separate partition for them. To my
mind, a picture is simply another kind of data, and there is no
advantage in doing this.
7. A partition for music files.
The comments above pertaining to picture files apply equally to music
files. They are just another kind of data and should be treated the
same way as other data.
With all the audio and video files you can acquire these days, the
quantity can come into play for some users. More of an organizational
thing, I think, that thinking the data files are somehow different. I
have a brother-in-law who has separate drives for video and audio files.
He's go so many external drives for his data that he really needs an
NAS, but so far no luck in getting him to buy one.

<snip>
Post by Ken Blake, MVP
*Performance*
Some people have multiple partitions because they believe that it
somehow improves performance. That’s not correct. The effect is
probably small on modern computers with modern hard drives, but if
anything, the opposite is true: more partitions mean poorer
performance. That’s because normally no partition is full and there
are therefore gaps between them. It takes time for the drive’s
read/write heads to traverse those gaps. The closer together files
are, the faster access to them will be.
This is where I have some disagreement. :-)

For the systems belonging to my friends that I reinstalled the OS and
such on, with one partition for OS and programs, and one for data, they
all said the computer ran faster than when it was new.

Being cynical by nature, I thought they were nuts. But recently I read
a post somewhere about "short stroking" your hard drive. This is one
article you can find on the web:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/255224/how_to_partition_your_hard_drive_to_optimize_performance.html

If this article and others are correct, then I think I accidentally
accomplished this on those systems. I also think this would be more
noticeable to the human brain on older and slower equipment.

Thoughts?
Post by Ken Blake, MVP
*Organization*
I think many people overpartition because they use partitions as an
organizational structure. They have a strong sense of order and want
to separate apples from oranges on their drives.
Yes, separating different kinds of files on partitions is an
organizational technique, but so is separating different kinds of
files in folders. The difference is that partitions are static and
fixed in size, while folders are dynamic, changing size automatically
as necessary to meet your changing needs. That generally makes folders
a much better way to organize, in my view.
True, partitions can be resized when necessary, but except with recent
versions of Windows, doing so requires third-party software (and the
ability to do it in Windows is primitive, compared to the third-party
solutions). Such third-party software normally costs money, and, no
matter how good and how stable it is, affects the entire drive,
entailing a risk of losing everything. Plan your partitions well in
the first place, and no repartitioning should be necessary. The need
to repartition usually comes about as a result of overpartitioning in
the first place.
What frequently happens when people organize with partitions instead
of folders is that they miscalculate how much room they need on each
such partition, and then when they run out of room on the partition
where a file logically belongs, while still having lots of space left
on the other, they simply store the file in the "wrong" partition.
Paradoxically, therefore, that kind of partition structure results in
less organization rather than more.
Other than the rare exception, I use folders. The exceptions would be
files so rarely accessed I simply want them somewhere that I'm not
accessing on any kind of regular basis. An analogy would be a mechanic
who has a group of specialized tools he may have to read the
instructions for each time he uses one. So he puts those tools in a
different drawer in the tool box so he doesn't have dig through them
each time he looks for a tool. So I would put those files on a
different partition that is rarely accessed, and the computer doesn't
have to "dig through" that part of the hard drive to find the more often
used data.

Again, more likely noticeable by the brain on slower equipment.
Post by Ken Blake, MVP
*So How Should I Partition My Drive*
If you've read what came before, my conclusions won't come as a
1. if your backup scheme is to image the entire drive, have just a
single partition (usually C:);
2. if you just backup data, have two partitions–one for Windows and
installed application programs (usually C:), the other for data
(usually D:).
Except for those running multiple operating systems, there is seldom
any benefit to having more than two partitions.
One aspect we haven't discussed is the user. Basically, there's two
types, one who wants to know how the computer works even if just the
very basics, and the one that doesn't.

Your article would more likely be read and taken to heart by the first
type. The ones I bump into are generally the 2nd type, notably two of
my sisters. LOL

With the systems I donate, I assume the new owner is of the 2nd type.
Based on my experiences with those uses, I think partitioning and then
relocating the personal folders may offer some protection for those
users against their own ignorance. I've a friend that actually wrote
data to the restore partition and the Windows Program Files folder.
This was challenge to find and separate/recover/copy all his data before
reinstalling the OS.

Maybe this works for those new owners, maybe not. But, at least I can
say I tried. LOL
--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 36.0.4
Thunderbird 31.5
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"
Ken Blake, MVP
2015-05-26 17:51:38 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 26 May 2015 11:00:14 -0600, Ken Springer
Post by Ken Springer
Post by Ken Blake, MVP
Some people have multiple partitions because they believe that it
somehow improves performance. ThatÂ’s not correct. The effect is
probably small on modern computers with modern hard drives, but if
anything, the opposite is true: more partitions mean poorer
performance. ThatÂ’s because normally no partition is full and there
are therefore gaps between them. It takes time for the driveÂ’s
read/write heads to traverse those gaps. The closer together files
are, the faster access to them will be.
This is where I have some disagreement. :-)
For the systems belonging to my friends that I reinstalled the OS and
such on, with one partition for OS and programs, and one for data, they
all said the computer ran faster than when it was new.
If the system ran faster after a new Windows installation, there are
many possible reasons why. Whether you are right or I am, do not
assume that the reason why is the partitioning scheme.
Ken Springer
2015-05-26 18:12:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake, MVP
On Tue, 26 May 2015 11:00:14 -0600, Ken Springer
Post by Ken Springer
Post by Ken Blake, MVP
Some people have multiple partitions because they believe that it
somehow improves performance. That’s not correct. The effect is
probably small on modern computers with modern hard drives, but if
anything, the opposite is true: more partitions mean poorer
performance. That’s because normally no partition is full and there
are therefore gaps between them. It takes time for the drive’s
read/write heads to traverse those gaps. The closer together files
are, the faster access to them will be.
This is where I have some disagreement. :-)
For the systems belonging to my friends that I reinstalled the OS and
such on, with one partition for OS and programs, and one for data, they
all said the computer ran faster than when it was new.
If the system ran faster after a new Windows installation, there are
many possible reasons why. Whether you are right or I am, do not
assume that the reason why is the partitioning scheme.
I know, and I've no way to check it out, either.
--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 36.0.4
Thunderbird 31.5
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"
Wolf K
2015-05-26 18:37:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Springer
Post by Ken Blake, MVP
On Tue, 26 May 2015 11:00:14 -0600, Ken Springer
Post by Ken Springer
Post by Ken Blake, MVP
Some people have multiple partitions because they believe that it
somehow improves performance. That’s not correct. The effect is
probably small on modern computers with modern hard drives, but if
anything, the opposite is true: more partitions mean poorer
performance. That’s because normally no partition is full and there
are therefore gaps between them. It takes time for the drive’s
read/write heads to traverse those gaps. The closer together files
are, the faster access to them will be.
This is where I have some disagreement. :-)
For the systems belonging to my friends that I reinstalled the OS and
such on, with one partition for OS and programs, and one for data, they
all said the computer ran faster than when it was new.
If the system ran faster after a new Windows installation, there are
many possible reasons why. Whether you are right or I am, do not
assume that the reason why is the partitioning scheme.
I know, and I've no way to check it out, either.
The most likely reason is less fragmentation.
--
Best,
Wolf K
kirkwood40.blogspot.ca
. . .winston
2015-05-26 22:50:16 UTC
Permalink
<snipped article>
*So How Should I Partition My Drive*
If you've read what came before, my conclusions won't come as a
1. if your backup scheme is to image the entire drive, have just a
single partition (usually C:);
2. if you just backup data, have two partitions–one for Windows and
installed application programs (usually C:), the other for data
(usually D:).
Except for those running multiple operating systems, there is seldom
any benefit to having more than two partitions.
I for the most part agree with the article and the 'how should I.." yet
I differ in opinion but only based on the following:

Windows 7 and later user installed or OEM installed by design has more
than one partition (I prefer calling them volumes but for this
discussion I'll stick with the same terminology)
- At the minimum there's a System and Boot Partition in a single disk
sytem.
- OEM's often include other partitions on the single disk (Recovery
partition, Software and/or Drive partition).
- Win 8 and later users and OEM are gradually migrating to GPT instead
of MBR. GPT when done to design intent has 4 partitions.


For desktops with available drive bays my recommendation has always been
to install a second hard disk and create one single primary partition
and divvy it up into folders for personal data (e.g. Documents,
Software, Music, Pictures).

For laptops, create a similar folder structure on the main disk but if
free space is available there is nothing wrong with an additional
partition with a similar data folder structure.

Both approaches creates a behavioral and methodical approach to storing
data external to the o/s.

No matter which approach or type of device (desktop, laptop) it is
obviously necessary to back up the data and the o/s.

Imo, its much easier for folks to understand and execute the need to
backup or image the operating system and backing up (not imaging) the data.

In fact most users (so-called-learned, great unwashed, john doe/mary
janes) will never image their operating system....relying on OEM created
recovery disks or if Windows is clean installed the original Windows
media or Microsoft provided (free) downloadable media for Win7 and
Win8.1. Not always what some of us would do (we'd backup, image
redundantly, run Home Server, try multiple backup software, etc.) but
the majority of us in this forum are not the average user.

Which leaves the primary efforts as noted before to back up their
data..and folks just understand that backing up by copying one or more
folders to external media or even use of included external media
configurable software (e.g. Western Digital Passport tools) is a whole
lot more easy to facilitate.....thus a unique and separate partition
from the operating system's default 'Documents/MyDocuments folders that
deliniated user personal data form the o/s chosen folders may just offer
better understanding on protecting personal data than trying to
understand the ever changing MSFT nomenclature of
C:\Users\<username>Documents-Music-Pictures-Downloads...add Libraries
and more confusion is introduced.
--
...winston
msft mvp consumer apps
Alek
2015-05-27 23:39:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by . . .winston
I for the most part agree with the article and the 'how should I.." yet
Windows 7 and later user installed or OEM installed by design has more
than one partition (I prefer calling them volumes but for this
discussion I'll stick with the same terminology)
- At the minimum there's a System and Boot Partition in a single disk
sytem.
- OEM's often include other partitions on the single disk (Recovery
partition, Software and/or Drive partition).
- Win 8 and later users and OEM are gradually migrating to GPT instead
of MBR. GPT when done to design intent has 4 partitions.
For desktops with available drive bays my recommendation has always been
to install a second hard disk and create one single primary partition
and divvy it up into folders for personal data (e.g. Documents,
Software, Music, Pictures).
Do you do this by relocating the shell folders of the same names?

I.e., is there a relationship between E:\personal\Documents and
C:\[username]\Documents?
Mayayana
2015-05-21 13:22:10 UTC
Permalink
I guess it's all a matter of personal preference. The
"special folders" are designed to help people who
simply don't get the file system. If software defaults to
saving in the personal Docs folder then people who
have no idea of how the file system works can still
access their files.

But what if one does understand how to use Explorer?
Personally I've never used any of the special folders
or libraries stuff. My "Documents" folder has been untouched
for years. I just make folders that make sense to me. I
have an E: drive partition for graphics, for instance. In
there are folders for photos, sounds and various other topics.
I also have partitions named Closet, Attic, Back40 and
NTStorage. The latter is NTFS formatted, for storing giant
files. In Attic\Business Docs are all relevant business files,
such as logos, contract templates, etc. Back40 has backup
of software installers, SDKs, service packs, etc. I keep
shortcuts to some of my more used folders on the Desktop
and also wrote an Explorer Bar for folder windows that
provides links to several commonly used folders. (I got
that idea from MS. They did something similar in Win9x.)

Which is all to say that the file system is *so* adaptable
and flexible that I don't see why anyone who actually uses
it would pay attention to "My *" folders or libraries.
Ken Springer
2015-05-21 14:50:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mayayana
I guess it's all a matter of personal preference. The
"special folders" are designed to help people who
simply don't get the file system. If software defaults to
saving in the personal Docs folder then people who
have no idea of how the file system works can still
access their files.
Exactly. But the default way of where those docs are stored pose
problems if you need or want to reinstall the operating system. Somehow,
you have to sort out your data from the OS files.
Post by Mayayana
But what if one does understand how to use Explorer?
Yep. I don't think people realize that hard drive organization isn't
any different at the core than organizing the files in your filing cabinet.

As far as I'm concerned, the display of folders in the navigation pane
from XP and older Explorers is superior with what showed up in Vista and
later.
Post by Mayayana
Personally I've never used any of the special folders
or libraries stuff. My "Documents" folder has been untouched
for years. I just make folders that make sense to me. I
have an E: drive partition for graphics, for instance. In
there are folders for photos, sounds and various other topics.
I also have partitions named Closet, Attic, Back40 and
NTStorage. The latter is NTFS formatted, for storing giant
files. In Attic\Business Docs are all relevant business files,
such as logos, contract templates, etc. Back40 has backup
of software installers, SDKs, service packs, etc. I keep
shortcuts to some of my more used folders on the Desktop
and also wrote an Explorer Bar for folder windows that
provides links to several commonly used folders. (I got
that idea from MS. They did something similar in Win9x.)
You, me, and one of my brothers-in-law all do this. But all of us
understand how the basics of a file system work. I think most people
don't understand that, because no one explains it in a way they understand.

I don't like desktop clutter, although this Mac has gotten way out of
hand. So I would increase the number of programs shown in the Start
Menu to the max, which pretty much solved a lot of the clutter.
Somethings I put on the Quick Launch bar in XP, and then pulled the QLB
on to the desktop where it is in a Window.

I've read the QLB is still in W7 but not displayed. There's a web page
somewhere that says how to get it back. I think it's a registry change.
Post by Mayayana
Which is all to say that the file system is *so* adaptable
and flexible that I don't see why anyone who actually uses
it would pay attention to "My *" folders or libraries.
For general use, I totally agree.

Libraries... I think the setup from MS is totally a waste of time. But
I've found a way to make it do what I'm looking for, and am disappointed
MS took the separate libraries section out of the Win8 Explorer. I've
written about this before, so won't get into that again. <G>

Documents... If I can manage to wade through the info Paul gave me, and
then find a way to add my own special folders to the Start Menu, I'll
have that almost "bent" to my way of wanting to do things. And I can
think of a couple occupations where a user might find this more useful
to them. I won't waste reader's time on this either, unless it's requested.

It literally never occurred to me to try this until a couple of days ago.

Both ideas won't make you immediate gains, but would aggregate into
gains over time. Just like when computers first came out. Pretty much
useless to you until you invested the time to learn them, and after
that, daily drudgery of much paperwork and such were now easier to
accomplish.
--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 36.0.4
Thunderbird 31.5
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"
Char Jackson
2015-05-21 18:53:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Springer
Libraries... I think the setup from MS is totally a waste of time.
Libraries work fine for me just as they are, but we've discussed it before.
Post by Ken Springer
Both ideas won't make you immediate gains, but would aggregate into
gains over time. Just like when computers first came out. Pretty much
useless to you until you invested the time to learn them, and after
that, daily drudgery of much paperwork and such were now easier to
accomplish.
In the beginning, I remember seeing lots of "balance your checkbook!" and
"organize your recipes!" types of claims. :-)

I don't need a computer to help me with either of those tasks, so I'm glad
that more uses were realized over time.
Ken Springer
2015-05-21 20:21:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Char Jackson
Post by Ken Springer
Libraries... I think the setup from MS is totally a waste of time.
Libraries work fine for me just as they are, but we've discussed it before.
Yeppers, that we have. LOL I think that's simply because we
wanted/expected them to do different things, or at least have the
capability. You like what they natively do, I don't like those
limitations. But I found a way to make them do what I wanted, so
ultimately, we both have what we were looking/hoping for. :-)
Post by Char Jackson
Post by Ken Springer
Both ideas won't make you immediate gains, but would aggregate into
gains over time. Just like when computers first came out. Pretty much
useless to you until you invested the time to learn them, and after
that, daily drudgery of much paperwork and such were now easier to
accomplish.
In the beginning, I remember seeing lots of "balance your checkbook!" and
"organize your recipes!" types of claims. :-)
OH, yea! LOL Never used a one of them!!! <G>
Post by Char Jackson
I don't need a computer to help me with either of those tasks, so I'm glad
that more uses were realized over time.
--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 36.0.4
Thunderbird 31.5
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"
R. C. White
2015-05-22 02:50:51 UTC
Permalink
Hi, Char.
Post by Char Jackson
In the beginning, I remember seeing lots of "balance your checkbook!" and
"organize your recipes!" types of claims. :-)
When was the last time you printed out your biorhythms?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biorhythm

That was the big selling tool in the late 1970's.

RC
-- --
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX
***@grandecom.net
Microsoft Windows MVP (2002-2010)
Windows Live Mail 2012 (Build 16.4.3528.0331) in Win8.1 Pro w/Media Center
Post by Char Jackson
Libraries... I think the setup from MS is totally a waste of time.
Libraries work fine for me just as they are, but we've discussed it before.
Post by Char Jackson
Both ideas won't make you immediate gains, but would aggregate into
gains over time. Just like when computers first came out. Pretty much
useless to you until you invested the time to learn them, and after
that, daily drudgery of much paperwork and such were now easier to
accomplish.
In the beginning, I remember seeing lots of "balance your checkbook!" and
"organize your recipes!" types of claims. :-)

I don't need a computer to help me with either of those tasks, so I'm glad
that more uses were realized over time.
Char Jackson
2015-05-22 04:06:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by R. C. White
Hi, Char.
Post by Char Jackson
In the beginning, I remember seeing lots of "balance your checkbook!" and
"organize your recipes!" types of claims. :-)
When was the last time you printed out your biorhythms?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biorhythm
That was the big selling tool in the late 1970's.
Now that you mention it, I remember a biorhythm fad, although I stayed well
away from it. Pet rocks, anyone? At least a pet rock won't leave hair all
over your keyboard like a cat might.
Mayayana
2015-05-22 12:40:51 UTC
Permalink
| When was the last time you printed out your biorhythms?
|

That's an interesting reminder, as fitness nonsense
for cellphones seems to be currently making it big
in the marketplace of tech gadgetry. People are now
paying $300+ for a "smart watch", and so far the only
use seems to be for recording one's pulse rate during
exercise -- a sort of high-tech, high-price calorie counter.

On the bright side, at least people don't have to print
out their pulse records. That's what the cloud is for. :)
Mike Barnes
2015-05-22 06:30:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Char Jackson
In the beginning, I remember seeing lots of "balance your checkbook!" and
"organize your recipes!" types of claims. :-)
I don't need a computer to help me with either of those tasks, so I'm glad
that more uses were realized over time.
I've been balancing my accounts using Quicken for probably 25 years, and
while "need" is slightly too strong a word, I really wouldn't want to be
without it.

I've also sorted SWMBO's recipe book (the sort with dozens or possibly
hundreds of scraps of paper) by scanning the useful bits and making them
available on the kitchen iPad, in alphabetical order. She loves it.
--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England
Char Jackson
2015-05-22 14:20:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Barnes
Post by Char Jackson
In the beginning, I remember seeing lots of "balance your checkbook!" and
"organize your recipes!" types of claims. :-)
I don't need a computer to help me with either of those tasks, so I'm glad
that more uses were realized over time.
I've been balancing my accounts using Quicken for probably 25 years, and
while "need" is slightly too strong a word, I really wouldn't want to be
without it.
It's probably been 20 years since I balanced any accounts in the traditional
sense, as a bulk activity at the end of the month, but when I did, I used an
actual calculator (and before that, just pen and paper). It's a task that
takes at most 2-3 minutes, so I was never wowed by the fact that a computer
can do it. Since you're using Quicken, I'm guessing your needs far surpass
mine.
Post by Mike Barnes
I've also sorted SWMBO's recipe book (the sort with dozens or possibly
hundreds of scraps of paper) by scanning the useful bits and making them
available on the kitchen iPad, in alphabetical order. She loves it.
We very rarely use recipes here. I think there's a single recipe (for tuna
casserole) in a kitchen drawer, and a Betty Crocker recipe book in one of
the cabinets, but I've not seen either of them used, ever.
Ken Blake, MVP
2015-05-22 14:35:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Char Jackson
Post by Mike Barnes
I've also sorted SWMBO's recipe book (the sort with dozens or possibly
hundreds of scraps of paper) by scanning the useful bits and making them
available on the kitchen iPad, in alphabetical order. She loves it.
We very rarely use recipes here. I think there's a single recipe (for tuna
casserole) in a kitchen drawer, and a Betty Crocker recipe book in one of
the cabinets, but I've not seen either of them used, ever.
I do most of the cooking in our house, and I almost *always* use a
recipe. I don't think of myself as being a good cook, in the sense of
being adventurous and inventing new dishes, or making improvements to
existing ones, but I'm very good at following directions in recipes,
and I use good recipes, so the dishes I make almost always turn out to
be very good.
Mike Barnes
2015-05-22 14:48:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Char Jackson
Post by Mike Barnes
Post by Char Jackson
In the beginning, I remember seeing lots of "balance your checkbook!" and
"organize your recipes!" types of claims. :-)
I don't need a computer to help me with either of those tasks, so I'm glad
that more uses were realized over time.
I've been balancing my accounts using Quicken for probably 25 years, and
while "need" is slightly too strong a word, I really wouldn't want to be
without it.
It's probably been 20 years since I balanced any accounts in the traditional
sense, as a bulk activity at the end of the month, but when I did, I used an
actual calculator (and before that, just pen and paper). It's a task that
takes at most 2-3 minutes, so I was never wowed by the fact that a computer
can do it. Since you're using Quicken, I'm guessing your needs far surpass
mine.
They must do: I would have to reconcile transactions at the rate of
about one per second to do it in that time.
--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England
Ken Blake, MVP
2015-05-22 14:30:44 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 22 May 2015 07:30:40 +0100, Mike Barnes
Post by Mike Barnes
Post by Char Jackson
In the beginning, I remember seeing lots of "balance your checkbook!" and
"organize your recipes!" types of claims. :-)
I don't need a computer to help me with either of those tasks, so I'm glad
that more uses were realized over time.
I've been balancing my accounts using Quicken for probably 25 years,
25 years is about the same for me too.
Post by Mike Barnes
and
while "need" is slightly too strong a word, I really wouldn't want to be
without it.
Ditto! It makes it *much* easier and faster.
Char Jackson
2015-05-22 15:15:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake, MVP
On Fri, 22 May 2015 07:30:40 +0100, Mike Barnes
Post by Mike Barnes
Post by Char Jackson
In the beginning, I remember seeing lots of "balance your checkbook!" and
"organize your recipes!" types of claims. :-)
I don't need a computer to help me with either of those tasks, so I'm glad
that more uses were realized over time.
I've been balancing my accounts using Quicken for probably 25 years,
25 years is about the same for me too.
Post by Mike Barnes
and
while "need" is slightly too strong a word, I really wouldn't want to be
without it.
Ditto! It makes it *much* easier and faster.
I'm mildly amused. :-) Are we still talking about adding some numbers and
then subtracting that total from another number, or is there more involved?
I'm just thinking that by the time you fire up Quicken, you probably could
be done already.
Ken Blake, MVP
2015-05-22 16:01:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Char Jackson
Post by Ken Blake, MVP
On Fri, 22 May 2015 07:30:40 +0100, Mike Barnes
Post by Mike Barnes
Post by Char Jackson
In the beginning, I remember seeing lots of "balance your checkbook!" and
"organize your recipes!" types of claims. :-)
I don't need a computer to help me with either of those tasks, so I'm glad
that more uses were realized over time.
I've been balancing my accounts using Quicken for probably 25 years,
25 years is about the same for me too.
Post by Mike Barnes
and
while "need" is slightly too strong a word, I really wouldn't want to be
without it.
Ditto! It makes it *much* easier and faster.
I'm mildly amused. :-) Are we still talking about adding some numbers and
then subtracting that total from another number, or is there more involved?
I'm just thinking that by the time you fire up Quicken, you probably could
be done already.
Quicken is always running here. I don't have to fire it up.
Mike Barnes
2015-05-27 22:23:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Char Jackson
Post by Ken Blake, MVP
On Fri, 22 May 2015 07:30:40 +0100, Mike Barnes
Post by Mike Barnes
Post by Char Jackson
In the beginning, I remember seeing lots of "balance your checkbook!" and
"organize your recipes!" types of claims. :-)
I don't need a computer to help me with either of those tasks, so I'm glad
that more uses were realized over time.
I've been balancing my accounts using Quicken for probably 25 years,
25 years is about the same for me too.
Post by Mike Barnes
and
while "need" is slightly too strong a word, I really wouldn't want to be
without it.
Ditto! It makes it *much* easier and faster.
I'm mildly amused. :-) Are we still talking about adding some numbers and
then subtracting that total from another number, or is there more involved?
Yes, more is involved. I match every transaction on the statement (which
stretches over several pages) with my own records. Recent transactions
will be missing from the statement and have to held over for the next
one, and obviously the two balances will differ. In some cases the exact
amounts need some work because my records are in foreign currency and
the statement is in sterling.

And then there are the transactions that my wife forgot to record. :-)
Post by Char Jackson
I'm just thinking that by the time you fire up Quicken, you probably could
be done already.
Hardly. Firing up Quicken takes approximately one second.

[I'm principally talking about credit card accounts, not "balancing my
checkbook", if that makes a difference.]
--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England
Char Jackson
2015-05-28 04:15:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Barnes
Post by Char Jackson
I'm just thinking that by the time you fire up Quicken, you probably could
be done already.
Hardly. Firing up Quicken takes approximately one second.
[I'm principally talking about credit card accounts, not "balancing my
checkbook", if that makes a difference.]
Makes no difference to me. I balance my bank accounts and my credit card
accounts in near real time.
Mike Barnes
2015-05-28 06:58:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Char Jackson
Post by Mike Barnes
Post by Char Jackson
I'm just thinking that by the time you fire up Quicken, you probably could
be done already.
Hardly. Firing up Quicken takes approximately one second.
[I'm principally talking about credit card accounts, not "balancing my
checkbook", if that makes a difference.]
Makes no difference to me. I balance my bank accounts and my credit card
accounts in near real time.
What does "in near real time" mean?

BTW I suspect that what you mean by "balance" isn't what I'm talking about.
--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England
Char Jackson
2015-05-28 19:31:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Barnes
Post by Char Jackson
Post by Mike Barnes
Post by Char Jackson
I'm just thinking that by the time you fire up Quicken, you probably could
be done already.
Hardly. Firing up Quicken takes approximately one second.
[I'm principally talking about credit card accounts, not "balancing my
checkbook", if that makes a difference.]
Makes no difference to me. I balance my bank accounts and my credit card
accounts in near real time.
What does "in near real time" mean?
For credit card transactions, I get notified within 2-3 seconds of every
transaction, so I can approve or deny them at that time. No need to
reconcile paper receipts.

For credit union transactions, I don't have proactive notifications set up,
but I log in at least daily to stay on top of what's happening there. I
don't write checks, (I'll say one or two a year, just to cover myself), so
it's not like I have to actually balance anything. It's just a quick glance
to confirm that everything looks legitimate, so by the time EOM or EOQ rolls
around, I have nothing to reconcile.

For investment-related financial institutions, I also check those online, so
by the time EOM or EOQ rolls around, I have nothing to reconcile.
Post by Mike Barnes
BTW I suspect that what you mean by "balance" isn't what I'm talking about.
Could be.
Mayayana
2015-05-28 12:17:16 UTC
Permalink
| > I'm mildly amused. :-) Are we still talking about adding some numbers
and
| > then subtracting that total from another number, or is there more
involved?
|
| Yes, more is involved. I match every transaction on the statement (which
| stretches over several pages) with my own records. Recent transactions
| will be missing from the statement and have to held over for the next
| one, and obviously the two balances will differ.

I do that as well. I have a slip of paper in a draw.
When it gets full I tape a new piece at the bottom.
After making charge purchases, I fire up my trusty
penta-digit computer, feed it a ball point pen, and
write down the price, store and purpose of for the
item. I daresay that firing up the penta-digit also takes
about 1 second, from start to having pen in hand.

My list doubles for my business purchases,
so I like to record customer names under the "purpose"
column in that case. The nice thing about my
penta-digit is that it can easily handle multi-defined
columns and creative notes in margins, which most
database-type tools choke on.

When I get my credit card bill I then fire up the
old penta-digit once again. It write a small check mark
next to each item that matches the purchase list.
Brilliant, don't you think? Best of all, aside from providing
3 meals a day (which I'd eat anyway) my penta-digit
only requires a pen from Staples once every few years.
So it's nearly cost-free and never requires buying
"upgrades". :)

I do use one "non-organic" machine for my extensive
recordkeeing, however. It's a solar powered, Texas
Instruments calculator that I bought at CVS drugstore
in May of 1985, for $10. I remember the date because
I bought it for my then-new business. To this day I
still don't use a computer for my business, except for
graphics and printing: receipts, business cards, images
of design ideas sent to customers via email, etc. My
business records and receipts are mainly on paper. If
I send a bill it's a PDF created in Libre Office. If I give
people a bill on the job I do it using a sheet of carbon
paper, so that we both have a copy. (I've also had the
same pack of carbon paper for years. Just because new
technology is available that doesn't necessarily mean it's
better.)
Ken Springer
2015-05-28 12:21:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mayayana
| > I'm mildly amused. :-) Are we still talking about adding some numbers
and
| > then subtracting that total from another number, or is there more
involved?
|
| Yes, more is involved. I match every transaction on the statement (which
| stretches over several pages) with my own records. Recent transactions
| will be missing from the statement and have to held over for the next
| one, and obviously the two balances will differ.
I do that as well. I have a slip of paper in a draw.
When it gets full I tape a new piece at the bottom.
After making charge purchases, I fire up my trusty
penta-digit computer, feed it a ball point pen, and
write down the price, store and purpose of for the
item. I daresay that firing up the penta-digit also takes
about 1 second, from start to having pen in hand.
My list doubles for my business purchases,
so I like to record customer names under the "purpose"
column in that case. The nice thing about my
penta-digit is that it can easily handle multi-defined
columns and creative notes in margins, which most
database-type tools choke on.
When I get my credit card bill I then fire up the
old penta-digit once again. It write a small check mark
next to each item that matches the purchase list.
Brilliant, don't you think? Best of all, aside from providing
3 meals a day (which I'd eat anyway) my penta-digit
only requires a pen from Staples once every few years.
So it's nearly cost-free and never requires buying
"upgrades". :)
I do use one "non-organic" machine for my extensive
recordkeeing, however. It's a solar powered, Texas
Instruments calculator that I bought at CVS drugstore
in May of 1985, for $10. I remember the date because
I bought it for my then-new business. To this day I
still don't use a computer for my business, except for
graphics and printing: receipts, business cards, images
of design ideas sent to customers via email, etc. My
business records and receipts are mainly on paper. If
I send a bill it's a PDF created in Libre Office. If I give
people a bill on the job I do it using a sheet of carbon
paper, so that we both have a copy. (I've also had the
same pack of carbon paper for years. Just because new
technology is available that doesn't necessarily mean it's
better.)
+1 on the last sentence. <G>
--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 36.0.4
Thunderbird 31.5
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"
Ken Blake, MVP
2015-05-28 17:33:36 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 28 May 2015 06:21:36 -0600, Ken Springer
Post by Ken Springer
Post by Mayayana
Just because new
technology is available that doesn't necessarily mean it's
better.)
+1 on the last sentence. <G>
I also agree. However, as far as I'm concerned, new technology is
better than older technology the great majority of the time.
Paul
2015-05-28 18:19:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake, MVP
On Thu, 28 May 2015 06:21:36 -0600, Ken Springer
Post by Ken Springer
Post by Mayayana
Just because new
technology is available that doesn't necessarily mean it's
better.)
+1 on the last sentence. <G>
I also agree. However, as far as I'm concerned, new technology is
better than older technology the great majority of the time.
Until someone finds the caveats in it, and shines a light on it.

*******

That 4GB/sec PCI Express connector in your new PC ? It only
delivers data at ~2GB/sec. The cause ? Intel using too-small
buffers on the bus host controller.

That new-fangled USB3 technology ? The USB3 cable stretching
from the back of your PC, emits RF signals in the 2.4GHz band,
wiping out Wifi/Bluetooth/Wireless Keyboard for people.

Not everything new, is unblemished.

How about this one ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HomePlug_Powerline_Alliance

Even though nominally, that one has frequency notches to
prevent spill into other RF bands, that device causes
the ham operator next door, to no longer be able to
pick up distant signals. Your ham radio operator next
door, is pissed at you. Of course, calling the FCC or
DOC doesn't work, because the device is "nominally compliant",
not really truly a non-interfering device.

Or even Wifi devices, where someone with an 802.11N
and three antennas and a "power booster", tries to
wipe the floor with your home Wifi LAN. And suddenly your
Wifi doesn't work.

Yes, new technology is wonderful.

SSDs that brick themselves.
Hard drives that brick themselves.
Every device with a processor in it, that can get hacked.

It's a brave new world.

I can see that new self driving car I bought,
drive off a cliff some day, while some kids
with an Android on an adjacent hillside, watch...
Coming to a theater near you.

As a savvy consumer, you can do your part by not
accepting new technology that has holes in it. For
example, do I need smart lightbulbs I can control
from my Android ? Or is a regular light switch
and bulb, safe and effective ? Your choice.

*******

The other day, we had a power brownout here.
What technologies alerted me ?

1) The old-fashioned UPS shut down. It detected 93 VAC
was too low, so it switched to batteries. A new-fangled
UPS with AVR, would not have said a word. The AVR
feature would have boosted the voltage for you.

2) An incandescent light bulb in my bathroom, confirmed
the low voltage problem. The LED lightbulbs my
computer room uses, are self-regulating, and put out
as much light at 100VAC as at 115VAC. They cannot
alert me to trouble.

And as near as I can tell, none of my neighbors on
the street, even noticed. So the new technologies
helped hide the details. Only someone boiling a
kettle, and noticing it was taking twice as long
to boil a kettle, might have noticed.

So yeah, I love new technology. Sure glad I didn't
replace the old UPS with a new one. As it alerted
me to trouble right away, with a persistent beep
tone. It even automatically shut off the computer
I'm using right now (so I finally got to confirm
that feature works).

It's a shame my hydro (power) company doesn't know
how to run a utility. They've done this before,
brownout on purpose while switching the wiring plan
of the neighborhood. I don't know why I have to be
the guy to phone up and complain. And then they
pretend "we're already working on it". Bullshit!

The reason I'm a bit pissed about this stuff, is
they came close to damaging my refrigerator.
The fridge switched on, and the compressor nearly
didn't come up to speed. It could have "cooked"
and even if the thermal cutout on it was still
working, one thermal event might have been enough
to ruin it. My fridge isn't exactly new.

Paul
Mayayana
2015-05-29 01:27:32 UTC
Permalink
| > I also agree. However, as far as I'm concerned, new technology is
| > better than older technology the great majority of the time.
| >
|
| Until someone finds the caveats in it, and shines a light on it.
|

Indeed. In addition to your list, just off the
top of my head:

* Keurig coffee makers that produce waste for no reason.

* Pre-primed wood moldings, made of glued up scraps
that later fall apart.

* Acrylic deck stain, which wears away nearly as
soon as it's painted on.

* Dryer sheets and plug-in air fresheners that fill the
air with noxious "fresh" scent.

* Roundup-ready corn and soy, designed to tolerate even
more toxic herbicide than regular grain, while also being
a patent-protected life form, so that farmers are banned
by Monsanto from saving seed. (Even if they did, it's
also designed to be sterile.)

* Frankenfood in general. I read the other day that Panera
Bread hopes to remove the 350-odd chemicals they use in
their products. One example: Titanium dioxide, the stuff
that makes white paint white (along with chalk) is used to
keep the cheese looking light colored as it ages. Normally
it would turn brown. :) The Panera people think removing
the fake ingredients will be good for business. But they're
having trouble: No one knows what their suppliers suppliers
suppliers are actually putting into the product. Bon Apetit.

Thinking of bad technology is like shooting fish in
a barrel. The truly odd thing is that most people will
think these technologies are good, based on nothing
more than exposure to marketing.
Paul
2015-05-29 02:47:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mayayana
* Dryer sheets and plug-in air fresheners that fill the
air with noxious "fresh" scent.
I'm with you on that one. My next door neighbor
goes through a metric ton of that stuff. And no
two dryer loads use the same "flavor".

I'm really impressed by the group of organic
chemists who design that stuff. So many "flavors",
all with the same electrical (antistatic) characteristics.
And none of them catch fire in the dryer :-)

I've stopped using dryer sheets here. One day
I got to the end of a box of them, and said to
myself "exactly why am I using these?". And
I couldn't come up with a good answer. I'd switched
from the aroma-filled ones, to the aroma-free
ones. And when the box of those was gone,
there just didn't seem to be a reason to
buy more.

(Yeah, sometimes the clothes stick together.
But they also used to stick together before
dryer sheets, and we somehow survived.)

Paul

Mike Barnes
2015-05-28 18:01:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mayayana
| > I'm mildly amused. :-) Are we still talking about adding some numbers
and
| > then subtracting that total from another number, or is there more
involved?
|
| Yes, more is involved. I match every transaction on the statement (which
| stretches over several pages) with my own records. Recent transactions
| will be missing from the statement and have to held over for the next
| one, and obviously the two balances will differ.
I do that as well. I have a slip of paper in a draw.
When it gets full I tape a new piece at the bottom.
After making charge purchases, I fire up my trusty
penta-digit computer, feed it a ball point pen, and
write down the price, store and purpose of for the
item. I daresay that firing up the penta-digit also takes
about 1 second, from start to having pen in hand.
My list doubles for my business purchases,
so I like to record customer names under the "purpose"
column in that case. The nice thing about my
penta-digit is that it can easily handle multi-defined
columns and creative notes in margins, which most
database-type tools choke on.
When I get my credit card bill I then fire up the
old penta-digit once again. It write a small check mark
next to each item that matches the purchase list.
Brilliant, don't you think? Best of all, aside from providing
3 meals a day (which I'd eat anyway) my penta-digit
only requires a pen from Staples once every few years.
So it's nearly cost-free and never requires buying
"upgrades". :)
I do use one "non-organic" machine for my extensive
recordkeeing, however. It's a solar powered, Texas
Instruments calculator that I bought at CVS drugstore
in May of 1985, for $10. I remember the date because
I bought it for my then-new business. To this day I
still don't use a computer for my business, except for
graphics and printing: receipts, business cards, images
of design ideas sent to customers via email, etc. My
business records and receipts are mainly on paper. If
I send a bill it's a PDF created in Libre Office. If I give
people a bill on the job I do it using a sheet of carbon
paper, so that we both have a copy. (I've also had the
same pack of carbon paper for years. Just because new
technology is available that doesn't necessarily mean it's
better.)
Very nice. I used to do things that way, but the computer does it so
much better. No new pens required either, and as for upgrades, the last
was in about 1995.
--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England
mechanic
2015-05-21 19:05:28 UTC
Permalink
Which is all to say that the file system is *so* adaptable and
flexible that I don't see why anyone who actually uses it would
pay attention to "My *" folders or libraries.
They don't call them "My" anything in Win8
Ken Blake, MVP
2015-05-21 20:13:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by mechanic
Which is all to say that the file system is *so* adaptable and
flexible that I don't see why anyone who actually uses it would
pay attention to "My *" folders or libraries.
They don't call them "My" anything in Win8
Sorry, but that's not correct. My Music, My Pictures, and My Videos
are sub-folders of Documents.
mechanic
2015-05-22 10:51:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake, MVP
Post by mechanic
Which is all to say that the file system is *so* adaptable and
flexible that I don't see why anyone who actually uses it would
pay attention to "My *" folders or libraries.
They don't call them "My" anything in Win8
Sorry, but that's not correct. My Music, My Pictures, and My Videos
are sub-folders of Documents.
On here they aren't.
Ken Blake, MVP
2015-05-22 14:36:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by mechanic
Post by Ken Blake, MVP
Post by mechanic
Which is all to say that the file system is *so* adaptable and
flexible that I don't see why anyone who actually uses it would
pay attention to "My *" folders or libraries.
They don't call them "My" anything in Win8
Sorry, but that's not correct. My Music, My Pictures, and My Videos
are sub-folders of Documents.
On here they aren't.
Then there's something strange about your computer.
Char Jackson
2015-05-22 15:09:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake, MVP
Post by mechanic
Post by Ken Blake, MVP
Post by mechanic
Which is all to say that the file system is *so* adaptable and
flexible that I don't see why anyone who actually uses it would
pay attention to "My *" folders or libraries.
They don't call them "My" anything in Win8
Sorry, but that's not correct. My Music, My Pictures, and My Videos
are sub-folders of Documents.
On here they aren't.
Then there's something strange about your computer.
On my Win 7 system, My Documents, My Music, My Pictures, and My Videos are
all peers of each other, residing at the same level in the hierarchy.

On my Win 8 system, they are also peers of each other, but none of the four
have the "My" prefix.

Are we different?
Ken Blake, MVP
2015-05-22 16:03:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Char Jackson
Post by Ken Blake, MVP
Post by mechanic
Post by Ken Blake, MVP
Post by mechanic
Which is all to say that the file system is *so* adaptable and
flexible that I don't see why anyone who actually uses it would
pay attention to "My *" folders or libraries.
They don't call them "My" anything in Win8
Sorry, but that's not correct. My Music, My Pictures, and My Videos
are sub-folders of Documents.
On here they aren't.
Then there's something strange about your computer.
On my Win 7 system, My Documents, My Music, My Pictures, and My Videos are
all peers of each other, residing at the same level in the hierarchy.
I can't remember what it was like in Windows 7. I was responding to
his post about Windows 8.
Post by Char Jackson
On my Win 8 system, they are also peers of each other, but none of the four
have the "My" prefix.
Are we different?
Apparently so.
mechanic
2015-05-22 22:01:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake, MVP
Post by Char Jackson
On my Win 8 system, they are also peers of each other, but none of the four
have the "My" prefix.
Are we different?
Apparently so.
Are you sure you have Windows 8/8.1 Ken?
Ken Blake, MVP
2015-05-22 23:56:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by mechanic
Post by Ken Blake, MVP
Post by Char Jackson
On my Win 8 system, they are also peers of each other, but none of the four
have the "My" prefix.
Are we different?
Apparently so.
Are you sure you have Windows 8/8.1 Ken?
Yes, absolutely sure--8.1. On *both* machines here.
Char Jackson
2015-05-23 05:53:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake, MVP
Post by mechanic
Post by Ken Blake, MVP
Post by Char Jackson
On my Win 8 system, they are also peers of each other, but none of the four
have the "My" prefix.
Are we different?
Apparently so.
Are you sure you have Windows 8/8.1 Ken?
Yes, absolutely sure--8.1. On *both* machines here.
Did you do an in place upgrade from Win 7? Maybe the previous directory
structure was maintained across the upgrade.
Ken Blake, MVP
2015-05-23 14:01:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Char Jackson
Post by Ken Blake, MVP
Post by mechanic
Post by Ken Blake, MVP
Post by Char Jackson
On my Win 8 system, they are also peers of each other, but none of the four
have the "My" prefix.
Are we different?
Apparently so.
Are you sure you have Windows 8/8.1 Ken?
Yes, absolutely sure--8.1. On *both* machines here.
Did you do an in place upgrade from Win 7? Maybe the previous directory
structure was maintained across the upgrade.
On my machine, yes, it was upgraded from 7. But on my wife's machine,
which is a one-week old inexpensive Dell, delivered with 8.1
installed, no. And she's running Classic Shell on it, not Start8.
Char Jackson
2015-05-23 14:16:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake, MVP
Post by Char Jackson
Post by Ken Blake, MVP
Post by mechanic
Post by Ken Blake, MVP
Post by Char Jackson
On my Win 8 system, they are also peers of each other, but none of the four
have the "My" prefix.
Are we different?
Apparently so.
Are you sure you have Windows 8/8.1 Ken?
Yes, absolutely sure--8.1. On *both* machines here.
Did you do an in place upgrade from Win 7? Maybe the previous directory
structure was maintained across the upgrade.
On my machine, yes, it was upgraded from 7.
Thanks. I *think* that explains why you have the Win 7 directory structure,
(the "My" prefixes), that the rest of us don't have, but I think you also
said that My Music, My Pictures, and My Videos reside *within* My Documents,
which is a second, unexplained, difference. They should be alongside, not
within.
Post by Ken Blake, MVP
But on my wife's machine,
which is a one-week old inexpensive Dell, delivered with 8.1
installed, no. And she's running Classic Shell on it, not Start8.
I can't explain that one. I, too, have a Dell laptop, delivered with Win 8
and upgraded to 8.1 by me, and it has the proper Win 8 directory structure
where none of those 4 folders have the "My" prefix and none of them reside
below Documents.
Rene Lamontagne
2015-05-23 14:59:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Char Jackson
Post by Ken Blake, MVP
Post by mechanic
Post by Ken Blake, MVP
Post by Char Jackson
On my Win 8 system, they are also peers of each other, but none of the four
have the "My" prefix.
Are we different?
Apparently so.
Are you sure you have Windows 8/8.1 Ken?
Yes, absolutely sure--8.1. On *both* machines here.
Did you do an in place upgrade from Win 7? Maybe the previous directory
structure was maintained across the upgrade.
In my case I did a clean install on an SSD.

Regards, Rene
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